Fine. I'll Say It

Decent well thought out post.

Baffling that any1 would actually think damage creep isn’t an issue but there’s a few on here :weary:

That’s also because whenever they’d like to nerf her, skill elitists will bring in moira, mercy and brig. The ow devs shut a bullet in their own foot the day they thought that having auto lock healing and easy mechanics is a great move in an FPS games. No, it just doesn’t work like that.

whip shot: “am I a joke to you?”

3 Likes

Well, Genji is sure as **** not a normal FPS hero. Torb is though. Sym is, kinda. Bastion anybody? Is he not enough of a FPS hero?

That logic really doesn’t show. What does show is balancing for “streamer candy”. Does it look good on Twitch? Does it look good in OWL? Buff the **** out of it, let’s cash in on those sick moves.

13 Likes

You seem to think shieldbashing through a barrier, only to come to a complete hault is not jarring.

But not proccing a status effect, as you attack through a barrier is jarring?

1 Like

Imma just be tooting my own horn here. I said the same thing yesterday lol.

1 Like

i don’t care that you broke your elbow

but seriously I agree.
Super well written, too :clap:t2::clap:t2::clap:t2:

That’s the result of how momentum works in game. its the same issue with stopping WB. If they could get it to work without breaking something about the game they would have likely done it because that was the intent of the bash rework.

If we’re going to be really honest…we need to force Dive, Bunker, AND Deathball to come back. So we have actual varierty in OWL and nuance to strats.

Dive counters Deathball, Deathball counters Bunker, Bunker counters Dive. With some risk and room for mistakes and each one of those, you’d have a much better game.

5 Likes

It’s because they pander to the vocal minority rather then using their brains now.

5 Likes

Titanium never fails with a good thread.

Samito in a Twitter post said this: These changes aren’t targeting what makes brig “op”.
He said that the overheal was a problem, but hates even more of the lack of “decision making”.

Of course he directly compares it to Ana.
Where she decides who she is going to heal due to single target healing.

But doesnt talk Abou a support main will Probably know Who has a better chance of surviving. And its high healing numbers

3 Likes

We are in a strict 2-2-2 design now, no more quirky triple tanks or triple DPS or anything like that to give some balancing cushion for certain heroes. So it goes without saying that to balance these roles equally now, they should have equal clout or influence in the matches. Can you really tell me that these “powercrept” DPS have more value in a match than Rein/Zarya/Sigma/Ana/Lucio etc? I sure as heck can’t, it’s very difficult to say who wins the MVP there. That’s indicative of roles approaching equal value. That’s why you’re seeing “power creep” and “tank/support” nerfs, because we’re moving away from scenarios where it was common to have multiple DPS to scenarios where only 2 of them make up that damage; scenarios where it was common to have a single tank or support, to scenarios where now you consistently have two to make up that tanking and supporting. What I’m saying is that a stricter balance philosophy is being applied in 2-2-2, one that was impossible when player preferences in roles was a factor midgame. The ability to swap out of your role presented huge balancing problems.

Another thing, power creep in itself is not inherently bad. What it does is shift the pace of the game. If we went the opposite direction and nerfed damage, we would end up with the same game, just much slower. And it wasn’t just damage heroes getting crept, introducing heroes like Orisa/Sigma/Moira and Bap further raised the bar on how much healing and shielding was available in the game at that time. Every role was crept, and now in 2-2-2 everyone is getting fine tuned to be equal to their other role counterparts.

So at the end of the day under 2-2-2 tanks can’t mitigate all the damage, supports can’t heal through all the damage, and DPS are quite good at dealing it. This is what it means to have equality among the roles at the pace that the devs have chosen to balance for.

Oh and one last thing. Heroes like McCree once upon a time had 70 damage fans and no drop off. Genji had an 8 second blade, triple jump and deadlier animation cancels for combos. I’d argue that both of those are still more OP than what we have now. If you want to truly measure powercreep and net buffs/nerfs, you must trace balancing changes from the beginning of the game to now, and not from an arbitrary 4th season. Not surprisingly, both McCree and Genji were must picks in those states. Idk who here would remember the first couple OW tourneys with McCrees fanning tanks to death in seconds, or the “whoever has the better genji wins” meta shortly after.

Wait, they had brains at one point?

same tbh.

It’s pretty obvious to a lot of people.

It may be the reason they’re avoiding nerfing Ana tho. If Dive does come back, she’ll be crippled right away. Problem is they’re still neglecting how bad Winston gets punished to even think about running a proper dive comp these days.

1 Like

Brig 2.0 can’t do this anymore, not enough armor and not enough self heal to survive as an overextending hero. The thing is, if this was true, she would’ve been played in bronze and silver, she’s rarely played down there these days.

Her skill doesn’t lie in aiming, but in positionning and I can tell you that overextending jut a bit will get you killed especially because of the levels of burst these days.

I think, as a support main that brig as we know her should never have existed though. They tried to counter skill with braindead. I think they should’ve countered skill and mobility with skill and mobility. Like adding a very mobile hero like genji, with less damage of course but zoning mechanics, like lucio’s boop but make it need aim.

But Brig 2.0 is nowhere being as braindead as she was during her 1.0 days.

7 Likes

Hah, just because something is easy to do, doesn’t mean it’s obvious that that’s the right thing to do.

Most balance changes are just flipping a few numbers. Which takes next to zero coding effort.

But despite that, balancing is difficult.

1 Like

Couldn’t you put all the damagecreep hero examples under hidden text to make it easier to read? :sweat_smile:

If that breaks something else then no its not the right thing to do. Unintended consequences are something to consider.

I’ve put this in like 5 of my last ten posts. Blizz wants to stuff dive down our throat. They are lost as to how to handle double shield. They figure we’ll deal with dive while the team slams it’s head into a desk until the scars on their forehead delivers them a way to stop double shield from being a thing. They could only allow one shield tank in a match (still allow double non-shield tanks and revert shield nerfs), but since the tank category is underpopulated/whelming it would force less diversity. They could release a hero that is strong against shields, but then they would wreck single shield comps. See they shot themselves in the foot and ran out of bandages while sticking them onto OWL.

5 Likes

A smart move would’ve been to not give brig 2.0 to option to give armor to heroes with full health or to not give armor at all cause certain heroes shouldn’t have armor.

See, this buff to brig 2.0 was an unitended consequence, but who would’ve thought maybe some people but the devs didn’t think about it.