[Feedback Thread Continued Part III] Mercy Updates - Jan 30, 2018

[Lazarxs-2439]

That’s what she is "technically"supposed to do.

[HelpingHero-1164]

I just want Mercy to feel complete again. Right now, she feels like separate pieces which don’t work well together (Valk and Rez) on top of a good base (Heals, DMB, Gun, GA)

My proposed rework borrows ideas from HotS, specifically Auriel:

Resurrect (Ultimate):

1. Instant Cast
2. 15m radius
3. 50% dmg reduction during cast time (I’ll explain)
   -New QoL changes:
4. Once cast begins a 2 second timer on each fallen ally and sets up a 15m radius zone. (Mercy has free movement during this time)
5. Once 2 sec have passed, all allies who were fallen at time of cast are resurrected.
6. If Mercy is inhibited during Rez timer (hacked, stunned, killed, etc.), all Rezzes are cancelled.
7. If Mercy leaves the 15m zone, fallen allies will not respawn.
8. Upon cast, living allies receive 200 hp. (If within 15m zone)
9. Requires LoS.

I feel that this gives Resurrect enough counterplay for how strong it is, and it severely inhibits Hide and Res because if Mercy were to wait for her allies to die, she would be alone for 2 sec with the enemy all around her.

It would require a great deal of skill to get that 5 man res.

Valkyrie (E):

1. Duration of 5 sec.
2. Grants flight.
3. Grants boosted heals/dmb to target (75 hps/40% dmb).
4. Has a 15 sec Cooldown.

I have always felt that a toned down Valk would be a great utility ability.

What do you guys think?

[Lithy-2614]

There’s about a 5-6 difference in the averages going from bronze to GM.

Yes, only 1 more rez. That’s not enough for saying that it really takes skill.

This is your opinion and peoples opinions on this are very very mixed.

You can’t rework mercy in any direction from here that doesn’t A. break her like before B. make her absolutely useless.

If you change the core idea of mercy then you will get people complaining that they want mercy back, you can’t please everyone.

Guess why so many people are complaining now. Mercy’s core is utterly messed.

Also, a rework will not necessarily break her. Tweaks to this design will. A new rework will mean a new start.

And sorry, but that’s my opinion and the opinion of a huge amount of players.

When you don’t specify the argument to be about enjoyment it’s pretty safe to assume you don’t understand the concept of pure healing vs utility.

I explained you the point, if you don’t want to get it, that’s your fault.

She wasn’t balanced before the rework and fun is subjective.

She was balanced. I agree that being unfun to play against was never a reason to rework her. Considering that in the end it was, now being unfun to play as is even more a valid reason to rework her. Please, no more hypocrisy.

The same argument could be used against changing Scatter Arrow. Viability was never the issue. The reason that both received changes is that they are frustrating to play against.

Do you know what is even more frustrating than scatter arrow? Deflect. Is it going to be replaced by something? No, it’s going to be tweaked. Is it Genji’s identity? No. So, why destroy rez which was 1/3 of Mercy’s identity and her whole signature in the game just because a bunch of people found it “frustrating” (a definition that works for absolutely everything you play against and has some impact in this game)

You’re neglecting the perspective of those who do not play Mercy. We felt that it wasn’t fun to play against mass res, balanced or not. Similar to Hanzo.

And you are neglecting the fact that it was too easy to tweak in order to satisfy people like you who just want her easy to counter. Also, you are neglecting too the fact that rez is Mercy’s identity and the fact that valkirie is bad design because it removes all skill taken from her.

You don’t need to play something to objectively understand how to do it from observing others.

This depends on who are you looking at.

So you have to be the master at anything you do or you don’t get to have an opinion?

No need of having a great rank. You only need to understand and respect other opinion but yours. By now, you are trying to impose your opinion as if you were some kind of GM player over real GM players in here (not me), and a lot more with great knowledges about the game. In my case, I play this game since before Ana’s release, so I really know how Mercy was in the past. She was balanced, even underpowered during seasons 2 and 3.

To have recent time would mean that i have to play mercy at my current rank.

Did you not bother reading your own argument?

You see me saying mercy is fine and balanced and you assume that to be belittling of other peoples opinions. That’s not my fault, it was just my opinion.

You are belittling other people’s opinion when they explain you properly why Mercy is not fine giving and you simply ignore them and continue with your own speech.

Now this is the point. Mercy is balanced. Mercy is not fine. Valkirie removes all Mercy’s skills. Valkirie is an ez mode pro simulator. The rework was never needed. Valkirie was never needed as her ultimate. Mercy’s identity is twisted now. Even the pro Mercys dislike current Mercy.

But the majority of the people that complain about mercy don’t want to think that having mercy be a resurrection machine instead of having it be objectively balanced just makes her a must pick and that’s only harmful to the majority of players that don’t necessarily want to play mercy.

Seasons 2 and 3. OP must pick Mercy with her invincible mass rez had a powerful 5-0% pickrate with Pharah having her highest pickrate ever. Meanwhile, Lucio and Ana had a weak pickrate around 85%. Official statistics from the game. Yes, it seems she was really op. /s

You do still use resurrect during valkyrie it’s just not currently something that you get to automaticly do for free without thinking about the situation, it still is an extremely powerful ability, but now it’s just not the universal must have compared to how it was before.

Current rez’s decision making: “Where can I hide?” “Where are my shields?”
No, rez now takes zero skill. It takes the same skill or even less than old hide and rez exploit.

They are avoiding the situation of a complete removal because it essentially is a part of her core.

It’s a lose-lose pitfall.

Yes, they know that they can’t remove it. It’s her core as half of her entire set of sprays, potg, poses and even real statues can show you. However, reworking it as an ultimate would be truely easy. Just try a way to force the Mercy to engage (no options to hide) and that’s all. That’s way easier than fixing valkirie which is unengaging, redundant, dull and definitely bad design. Keeping this current design is a lose too because they are losing players yet. They stopped the Mercy meta’s bleeding but they destroyed her, so now the wound is located in that community (which was really wounded since the rework was made anyway).

It’s just a tricky situation where both sides will never be truly happy at the same time. (Not anywhere in the near future atleast)

There are solutions about this. Many people are suggesting to bring back mass rez BUT with added counterplay, and giving her a new E ability (not rez anymore) to compensate that, next to keeping her bunny hop, which was a real success.

To be honest I think the best would have been reworking the mechanic altogether if they want it to be in her base kit, but it seems they have grown tired of her and won’t touch her anywhere in the near future. Thus she will remain an open wound both to those who play her and those who have to face her.

It’s sad, but I really think they already threw the last nerfs just because they were tired of trying to balance her, so they simply decided to stop the bleeding of players destroying her and leaving her in this sort of coma.

Before the rework if she was picked on 1 team she became a must pick for both teams.

Look at seasons 2 and 3 official statistics. You are wrong.

This just isn’t true.

There are situations where you don’t have to think about how you use it, but there are also situations where you do have to think about how you use it.

To hide, or not to rez. That is the question.

So what exactly is that post other than ana is weak vs dive and no support is a must pick anymore?

Ana was overnerfed, everyone knows this. Before Moira’s release, the only two main healers were Mercy and Ana, so we are talking about a hero pool of just 2. After Ana’s murdering, Mercy started seeing some game, and with the dive meta, she was very favoured because try to aim that annoying ninja if you want, or that blinking mosquito. No way. That’s why Mercy was seeing some game. The gods of the meta (Genji, Tracer and Winston) were forgiven for Ana. Having a hero pool of just 2, if Mercy saw much game, that wasn’t her fault, but the lack of main supports.

So how is that any different to what mass rez was when all you did was hide and tell your teammates to die on point or use it for invulnerability?

Please, is time to stop this lie. Mass rez was never just hide and rez. If you played that way, you were exploiting her SR system, and that was your fault because you were playing her bad. A good Mercy could perfectly be in the mid of the fight ALL the match keeping her teammates alive and using tempo rez when needed thinking how and when to use it.

This is exactly one of the reasons of why people are complaining so much now. Before, they could choose between play her engaging or unengaging. Now there is no option. They MUST disengage both for her rez and during valk. That’s not a good design.

6 is the current average at the 50th % mark for mercy.

So by todays standards you are underperforming.

According to standards, the pro player Ark is underperforming with his rez because he tries to play her selfish. However, he has the best results, being the least killed pro player who play Mercy and the one who rezzes the least. Now tell us why an ability should encourage you to simply ignore it.

Mercy is being played alot and she isn’t a must pick.

That’s about it.

Sadly, a character’s pickrate is not a good indicative of anything since even the best world Mercys keep playing Mercy but dislike her current state. According to them, Mercy has no skill ceiling, nor a real ultimate.

If you only count the number of individual posts that have complaints about the current version you cut down that number significantly.

And if you count people that complain out of this specific forum, sure they will dramatically increase. Regardless, even if you start counting less, there sure are more than 35k posts being complains. That’s a lot, considering that not everyone uses this specific forum.

As much as I want Rez to exist on Mercy due to its existence on Mercy. I don’t see how Mercy’s lore implies Rez or doesn’t imply Rez. It really doesn’t say anything about it.

Mercy’s rez is in her lore. It has been already explained how it works (she launches nanobots that heal her teammates, even if they are badly injured; she is a master of nano medicine, not a necromancer). Without rez, there would be no Genji and I’m almost sure that no Soldier 76. Also, if I’m right and Moira based some of her experiments on Mercy’s work, probably without rez there would be no Reaper.

Time to figure something else out then. Rez can just go away.

You know this, I think. It is said that rez will not be removed, it will always be part of Mercy’s kit. Just reminding. Of course, as it is is just bad, it should have never been set as an E ability on cooldown. However, rez’s place is Mercy’s ultimate because it really needs to be earned, not given. It’s too powerful to be just given.

Still… 1.0 version of it was quite a nice counter to all these “USING ALL THE ULTIMATES AT ONCE!” ;p

And now you can spam Q and repeat for a free win, at least in 2cp games.

Because she was a must pick and you refuse to admit it.

Seasons 2 and 3 want to talk with you… again.

You say one thing and then you do the exact opposite.

If 1 team had mercy she was a must pick for the other team to have a fighting chance against mass rez.

Tbh, until the last day before the rework, I always saw a lot of comps with no Mercy. All supports were more or less common, Ana maybe the least.

I agree. If blizzard wants to keep res a part of her kit, it needs to be an ultimate. If not, they need to remove res and give her an ability that is actually good at doing something that flows with her kit.

And I truely doubt they will remove it, as half of Mercy’s set is related to her rez. By now somepeople is complaining eventually about her “huge rez” spray. Now imagine the situation without rez. Potgs, poses, sprays, statues,… all about something that the character has not in her kit.

Mercy was nothing more than a minigame of hide and seek and the team that had the mercy that was better at hiding won.

That’s a lie, and if you played her that way you played her wrong. That simple. She had her most engaging form pre rework, but maybe you refused to play her right. Ofc, even Taimu admitted that old Mercy’s only real problem was her broken SR system which encouraged hide and rez. Fixed that, hide and rez would have died.

Also, we have t500s and GMs here complaining too, and they made us know that hiding was already an awful strategy which only reward was SR booting, because in game terms you let your team with one main support less, a great disadvantage in any incoming fight.

They spent something close to half a year working on her and you expect them to keep working on her despite the fact that she is balanced and just not work on any of the other problems that other heroes/the game has.

Added to that you have a bunch of mixed opinions that you clump together while ignoring the issue of game balance.

No, we are okay with them working on other heroes, but what wasn’t broken didn’t need to be rebuilt. Now Mercy’s design is bad, and that’s an issue beyond balance, even more serious. She needs another rework.

There are different opinions because we are trying to suggest different things to try, I think this is too easy to understand.

Yes there was a time when this was a thing but before the rework there was also a time where she was a must pick so they had to rework her because the original version was impossible to balance correctly.

No, they didn’t try anything to balance her old ult. I’ll just explain you how Mercy worked since game’s development:

1- Game’s development: Original Mercy had no mass rez as her ultimate. In its place she had… VALKIRIE!!! She was proved such a bad design that in the end Blizz had to replace that ult by something better and healthier: mass rez.

2- Alpha/beta: Original mass rez included a long cast time being stationary in order to work. It was more radical than now, but everyone complained because Mercy always died trying to rez. It was proved such a bad design that Blizz decided to make it instant. That design succeded and worked well until Ana’s release.

3- Ana’s release: Ana’s apparison made Mercy really a trol pick because she could do all what she could do but even better. Yes, Ana couldn’t rez people, but she had better aoe and single healing, and she could deny enemy’s healing, cc, deal good damage,… Blizz decided to overnerf Ana but they buffed Mercy too with the i-frames. That didn’t make her a must pick, so she kept them. Later, the dive meta came and Mercy was the only main healer capable of deal with such a meta, so it was clear that Ow needed more healers. Also, being now popular, people started to moan about her because she could punish bad plays and some Mercys already hid and rez. Blizz could have tried a lot of things, but instead of listening or stick with their original QoL changes, as it seemed at the beginning, they just reworked her.

4- Original reworked Mercy: broken beyond imagination, Mercy dominated the meta for a long time. Mercy mains were vilified by some streamers because somepeople thought they just liked playing an op character. However, a lot of Mercy mains were complaining all the time because they didn’t like how the rework was being handled. Nerf after nerf, she lost everything she had, keeping almost only the worst things.

5- Current Mercy: With no skill ceiling, a usually worthless E and an ez mode pro simulator Q, Mercy is somehow balanced but proved as bad design over and over. This design redounds in two mistakes from Mercy’s past while achieving absolutely nothing. Pre rework Mercy was balanced. Hide and rez is now mandatory, not even a choice. Mercy is in her most unengaging form. She takes less skill than ever before. The question is: how much time will Blizz take to change this bad design for good?

The clear majority are saying that she’s fine and balanced right now and the stats back that up.

The majority is not discussing her pick/winrate, but only a few are saying that she is fine. She is not because she is not good design. Her pick/winrate is not a proof of that since a lot of people who play her (every single pro Mercy in the game included) don’t enjoy her.

You base your view entirely on your own bias and nothing will change that.

This is an unfortunate statement that can work in both sides.

Not anymore Valkyrie does AOE healing so no Mercy does not focus on “big single target healing” Mercy focuses on consistent healing while Moira focuses on Burst healing as you said.

Interesting point, I didn’t consider it. So that would mean that Mercy’s whole identity (strong unitarget healing, mobility and rez) has been twisted. Now that I think about it, it makes sense. Mercy never needed aoe healing, she was the only support capable of solo heal her team. All fits.

That’s what she is "technically"supposed to do.

But she doesn’t do it already. Imagine now that Reaper’s death blossom couldn’t kill anything. “Die, die, die!” wouldn’t fit because he is not really murdering anyone. Valkirie is not really saving her teammates, just helping them a bit, the same as Lucio’s amp it up does.

My proposed rework borrows ideas from HotS, specifically Auriel:

I’m okay with it, but I see some issues there about your new rez (valk is nice there). Let me explain:

Instant Cast

Once cast begins a 2 second timer on each fallen ally and sets up a 15m radius zone. (Mercy has free movement during this time)

These two confuse me. Rez is instant or has 2 sec cast time?

Upon cast, living allies receive 200 hp. (If within 15m zone)

I think this is the point you should tweak more. The rez with less than 100% health has been discused. It would allow Mercy to rez some characters in order to charge her ult again. Okay, 200 hp are the average character’s health, but let’s go to the extreme. Take Roadhog. Mercy could rez him and heal his 400 hp left in order to have it again. I’m not sure if that would be a really good idea.

TLDR: Sorry for the huge post, but if I were going to response everything I see here individually, I would write so much posts that I would be banned for sure. Obviously, I don’t want that.

[Nicolas-23149]

Apparently Jeff said in some interview that they are, in fact, not pleased by the current Mercy build and they want to change it. It’s a news on Polish OW pages, but I dunno if that’s legit.

But if so, why not said that to us and hid it in interview?

[Misericordia-21321]

It seems that most of the people writing “Mercy is no longer fun” are extremely biased in their views. That is unfortunate and I hope they don’t have too much influence on your decisions as developers. Mercy in her current state is very engaging to play as and one of the best supports in the game. There’s no need for her to be broken and easy to use for months again.

I am still amazed by people who judge the pleasure of the game of others.
It is right, in fact, that you support your ideas about it, free to do it. But do not judge others who do not agree this way: “extremely biased in their views.”
For me, mercy is the best support of the game, true, but it is no longer a hero. I do not find that you are part of a team, you are too dependent on your team, you are a partner of the other heroes. The rez at present is very bad, because it reduces the characteristic of mercy that is his mobility (the thing that I loved her). I can not stand being stuck for 1.75 sec. It’s ridiculous on mercy, but it’s not for anyone but her.
Valckyria as ultimate is bad, keep the keys pressed for just 15 sec … yes sometimes kill the pharah and widowmaker but just because with vlakcyria you know you can not overturn a team fight with your heal or boost damage
As I think it, I would put any signature to have mercy trash pick but funny as it was before and you felt satisfied with your ultimate or angry with yourself when you were wrong

[QuizzyBunny-2512]

I would be very interested in reading a translated version of that. I have to admit, I have a hard time believing it…

[HelpingHero-1164]

About the 2 points of confusion:

1. She instantly casts Resurrect; however, enemies are not revived until 2 seconds later. She basically marks them for resurrection.
2. All allies who are alive when she casts Resurrect are given a 200 hp burst heal. This is meant to incentivize tempo Rez more than Hide and Rez.

[Lithy-2614]

Wait… What? Am I dreaming? Hope they will really change her, and this time in the right direction. We have had enough of Mercy’s past’s mistakes.

[Promephius-2624]

I’m not gonna take the time to adress this megapost so i will rather just clarify the first thing you replied to: At bronze the average amount of resurrects is about 3 to 4 and at 99th % it is almost 9, so the 5-6 was a 5 to 6 resurrect difference from bronze to gm.
Not a difference of 5 compared to 6, but a difference of 5 to 6 in between the 2 levels.

[Nandalee-2753]

I like it very much! They could also ship an Auriel skin with that rework.

[Nicolas-23149]

Same here, but sure.

The source:
https://overwatch.pl/news/blizzard-niezadowolony-z-obecnej-laski-szykuja-sie-kolejne-zmiany

We feel she could be in a better place in Overwatch. We are not fully satisfied by her current state. That’s why we are trying to collect as many feedback as possible.

[Lithy-2614]

Ok, so you are saying that her rez would be instant but if she is stunned or cced or whatever, during those 2 sec, she would lose her rezzes? That could work. I’m not sure how Blizz could implement that new mechanic (let’s call it hidden cast time), but sounds nice.

Also, your second point, as I understand means that rez would affect the alive teammates too. That’s a popular suggestion, and I think it could improve her skill ceiling.

I’m not gonna take the time to adress this megapost so i will rather just clarify the first thing you replied to: At bronze the average amount of resurrects is about 3 to 4 and at 99th % it is almost 9, so the 5-6 was a 5 to 6 resurrect difference from bronze to gm.

Not a difference of 5 compared to 6, but a difference of 5 to 6 in between the 2 levels.

I’ll not gonna take the time to give you a well explained answer about yours then. Just watch Ark’s statistics. “I try to play her selfish” he says. Do that, and explain us why is that good and right.

[QuizzyBunny-2512]

Huh, probably means they want to nerf her.

[Nicolas-23149]

I’m expecting res to be gone. So she could totally lie with her iconic “heroes never die”.

[Promephius-2624]

I’ll not gonna take the time to give you a well explained answer about yours then. Just watch Ark’s statistics. “I try to play her selfish” he says. Do that, and explain us why is that good and right.

I honestly didn’t expect for you to have formed your own opinions and i was right.
Let’s just let this subject die on my part as we have nothing to discuss.

[Lithy-2614]

Idk, considering all last Mercy’s changes we can hope the worst of course, but I doubt that they will remove it. There is too much of Mercy around rez to remove it. I hope they will rework her again, as they did in the past.

I honestly didn’t expect for you to have formed your own opinions and i was right.

Let’s just let this subject die on my part as we have nothing to discuss.

We have nothing to discuss because you don’t want nor have no plans to. I’m okay. Agree to disagree then.

[Promephius-2624]

We have nothing to discuss because you don’t want nor have no plans to. I’m okay. Agree to disagree then.

I’ve already discussed the matter to a point of doing nothing more than repeating myself to people who don’t understand what anyone who has an opposing point of view is saying.
Just let it die.

[Ɠrim-1763]

There is a god.
20char

[Lithy-2614]

Then imagine how fed up I am of repeating myself each day each 2-3 hours since the rework was announced (more than 8 months!) for the same reasons you are telling me.

[Nicolas-23149]

There is a god.

God of War. And Wrestle.

Still, they didn’t mention any source of that interview, so I’m not sure if that’s legit.