Oh yeah spread out is definitely better for mercy but they still need coherence, if everyone’s spread out but all doing their own thing with no communication, that’s an issue, especially for mercy being able to survive
And that’s what happens 90% of the time 
I personally like the idea of having a targetless guardian angel, it would really help Mercy with a poor team or she gets left on her own
Mercy only needs 0.03% more pickrate in GM to be the most important supporter in all ranks.
Happy “welcome back to Mercy being mandatory in team comps”.
It feels odd, that after 2(!) new healers were added, Mercy still near top. Almost like Blizzard failed to see demand for another healer of that kind, and instead added 2 off-healers.
With the 2 new healers, Mercy also got her rework and E res. So it’s not that odd if they give Mercy an Ult as an E ability.
They were added after rework. Blizzard could clearly see, that Mercy needs competition for main healer spot, and act accordingly. Instead, they added healers, who can’t compete with her at all, or require specific meta to be better.
This pile up of bad decisions feels too big even for Blizzard…
Being passive-agressive only results in more hate.
If you really were in this mindset, you’d better not have joined this thread.
If you though it’ll take a single post from you saying nothing’s wrong to stop our complains, you’re making a big mistake. But if you don’t even want to discuss, you’re admitting your incapability to hold the debate.
Countless (50,000+, maybe even more) posts prove this wrong. Just read the threads before coming up with such illogical conclusions.
I’m linking you one of the few posts which sums up everything.
However, what did you actually do, other than saying “stop whining leave now I love new Mercy she’s so skilled this is perfect I’m right period” ?
I still think, aside from E-rez, that a part of the problem is a lack of healers being able to perform in the same space as Mercy - and I mean this literally. Who can heal Pharah or Widowmaker as easily and consistently as Mercy can? Well, technically Ana (if not as consistently), but since she really has no place currently in the game I’m going to disregard her. This basically leaves Zenyatta (or I guess Brigitte if she’s constantly using her Repair pack), and 30hp/second really isn’t all that great when you are taking heavy fire. We need more healers for these characters, I’m thinking a builder healer that can throw out drones or something to heal their teammates and create health-packs for them to pick up.
“Need a dispenser here!”
But for real, the only thing that will bring Mercy’s pickrate down is another dedicated healer. Mercy is the only one we have, and it’s clearly a popular role for flex players and players who enjoy defensive strategy over aggression.
Hopefully Rez gets reworked in the next PTR patch. Despite multiple nerfs to Valk and Res directly, Mercy is still mandatory in OWL because of how easy Resses are to get off. 5v6 is the biggest advantage in OW and therefore Mercy is nearly always played (93.4% pick rate).
Mercy and Zen will be the only two viable supports (not including Brigitte as a Support) so long as Res remains on a 30s cooldown. Zen is also overtuned (DIscord too good, Trans slightly too good) but the main reason for the lack of viability of Ana, Lucio, and Moira in OWL is because of Res ability.
Possiblities for reworking Res:
Basically Mercy just needs to be less reliable: her healing is very good and goes through shields and defence matrix, her Res is reliable every 30 seconds, and her ultimate is very reliable. She is a low risk and dependable hero. Some of that needs to be taken away. Just do it in a way that doesn’t gut her and doesn’t mean she’s always picked over other Supports
And she helps aggressive strategies too, by having damage boost. Makes her only healer, which allows you to switch between strategies, without switching healers.
Want more offensive power? Damage boost. Want more defense? Healing beam.
Hmm, I wonder how a builder-healer could work…
Ability A - Healing drone that can be shot down (50 hp), heals for 45 hp/s and despawns after 12 seconds.
Ability B, 1 - Healing station, heals everyone in an AoE of 20 meters, heals 40 hp every 3 seconds.
Ability B, 2 - Damage boost station, boosts everyone in an AoE of 20 meters, continuously boosts 10%.
Ability C - Creates health packs worth 50 hp, gets one pack after healing 100 hp.
Ultimate - Yeah, no idea for this one yet. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=5" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
Not much utility here yet, but let me think more about it. ![:wink:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=5" ":wink:")
If we base it on TF2 Engineer, then it’s something like that:
Ability: healing station with AoE and 45 hp/s rate. Lasts, until destroyed(150-300hp), can be upgraded to increase health and radius.
Ability 2: drops regenerative kit. Ally regenerates half of their health for 10 s, with rate of 5% of their total health.
Ultimate: healing station upgraded to lv 3, healing rate increased to 65 hp/s. Also throws healthpacks, that restore 100 hp, at critically injured teammate, with 1 healthpack every 5 s rate.
This design has reached a dead end. GA can’t be nerfed of Mercy will be a free pick all the time. If her healing is nerfed, then she will lose her main utility. If her boost is nerfed, valkirie will be pointless. If rez is nerfed it won’t matter, it will be more obnoxious to pull off, but that’s all. If valkirie is nerfed then it will probably be useless.
This rework was a mistake from the beginning because it’s based on two bad designs from the past: valkirie as an ultimate and (now) rez with huge cast time and huge slow down. Rez is unbalanceable as an E ability and it’s too powerful, no matter how much they nerf it.
She needs an entire rework. One that brings her to a real nice spot (aka good design).
As an E ability, don’t even doubt it. As an ultimate, with some QoL changes it could have worked. That being said current rez doesn’t fit with Mercy at all because she is by definition a mobile support. She can’t have an immobile ability in her kit.
Sorry if I seem so. Now, about my suggestion, remember they were only examples of possible changes for a new iteration of mass rez with the main purpose of eliminating hide and rez of the game for ever. Those suggestion have been made by people in this forum, I’m only compilating them.
This has been discussed plenty of times. Bringing back something with a lot of changes is not a revert. Valkirie existed during game’s development and current rez’s mechanic got removed during game’s alpha/beta. Considering this:
Bringing back valkirie + E rez on cooldown again with huge cast time and huge slowdown + accidentally changing GA =/= revert
I think no one is calling this rework a revert, officially. Now, another one:
Revert defense matrix + micro missiles + firing while flying =/= revert (Dva’s)
I don’t know about anyone who calls this a revert neither, despite defense matrix got straight reverted and Dva’s role in the game got reverted to fat dps again aswell. So now, please, considering these two cases, answer me why:
Bring back mass rez with a lot of changes + replacing E rez by another E ability + keeping current GA and the rest untouched = revert???
I’m sorry, but that makes no sense at all to me.
I suggested and reasoned other examples, but let me show/explain you some of them.
1- LoS: no more rez through walls.
2- Little cast time: counterplay added, so a huge rez performed by hiding would be harder to pull off.
3- SR fixing: as even some pro player like Taimu admitted, hide and rez was a thing only because of the huge reward the SR system gave to it. So, no more reward for huge rezzes and more reward for keeping players alive. If climbing in ranked was the main purpose of hide and rez, this would kill it, because hide and rez would be zero rewarding and by using it you would end in botton bronze surely.
4- Decay system with a high cap to avoid both hide and rez and hide until rez is gone: what this meassure would try is to reward active and engaging Mercys with the chance of having their ults ready when they wanted, while punishing hide and rez, forcing those Mercys to deal with a 1 vs 6 with their pistols, a duel they would surely lose before earning again their rez.
Once again, these are only examples. I’m not telling that they are the best possible changes. However, the two firsts are very popular and the third one, Blizz did it already, but for some reason they didn’t give it a try.
1- Mass rez had it too, but with all the rezzed.
2- Mass rez had it too. If your team was splitted, you would surely lose even if you pulled a 5 men rez.
3- I think that question is mistaken because the one taking risks is not your teammate, but yourself. If you are going to survive while rezzing him, he should survive too. Anyway, mass rez was similar in the way that you shouldn’t use your rez if you suddenly hear “Fire in the hole!”
4- Where can I hide/Can my team babysit me?
5- This one worked very well with mass rez. Now I don’t see it anymore.
6- Where can I hide/Can my team babysit me?
7- Related to hiding or simply with the enemy’s ignorance. This one is not exactly thought. If you are not being receiving any attention from the enemy you will notice it.
8- Mass rez had it too, but even more complex because you needed to think about if you were able to earn your rez again.
9- Well, this one is the point of current rez forcing you to stop doing your job as a support, something that is bad design imo.
Mass rez’s thoughts:
1- How many teammates are down?
2- How important are my dead teammates for the team?
3- Are my dead teammates in a good position or they will die after my rez anyway?
4- How many of my teammates have their ults ready?
5- How many ults has the enemy team ready?
6- Will I be able to survive until my rez?
7- Can I hold the situation healing my alive teammates or is my rez really needed?
8- Will I be able to earn my rez again after the next emergency?
9- Will I die if I don’t use my rez just now?
10- How can I survive for pulling my rez off? (pay attention here, the answer here for a lot of people wasn’t just hiding)
11- Is my team winning or losing? Does the fight needs really a change?
12- Has my team someone I can try to heal or boost for earning quickly again my rez?
And I have summed up some of your points in just one. Mass rez was a lot more complex than current rez. About your next point…
1- Current rez has not complex priorization because you can’t rez more than one and it’s impossible to use it in a good team fight because then your teammates will die.
2- Current rez forces you to hide unless you are trying to rez after a team fight, and then you could let that guy to come on his way.
2.5- Agree, but here is the difference: with current rez hide and rez is not an exploit, it’s a must-do.
3- Why? You are not saving your team from nothing, you are only rezzing one guy. You don’t have to bother about the enemy’s ults because you can’t do anything against them. Valkirie is useless in that matter. Also, mass rez saved emergencies, current rez is just an undo button for mistakes in the most of the cases.
4- Yes, but not so much. Before you had to know too how many ults you were able to recover for your team. Now, in the best of the cases, it will be only one.
1- Okay, here you are talking about mass rez’s exploit, not mass rez. It didn’t work only by hiding or being babysitted, you could play by yourself too.
2.1- But with mass rez you could rez more than one, so you had to choose who, how many and if that situation really deserved your ult to be used. You surely would last more than 30 seconds to have it again. With current rez, it doesn’t matter. You know the time, it’s there.
2.2- Once again, no. It’s more complex to aknowledge about 2 or 3 guys having their ults ready and maybe deciding how many of them can you recover than just aknowledge about one guy having his ult ready.
Sorry, but no. If even the pros are telling to not use it, and those who rez the least possible die less, then there is a big problem there. You can start a rez perfectly hidden, but if suddenly Tracer teleports near and spot you, you are going to die. Also, your teammates can work as hard as they want, but that takes no skill from you, and there is not a single character in this game for using an ability. Not even Bastion.
Now about your examples, I just want to point out that you are comparing rez all the time with ultimates, when sadly now it’s an E ability on cooldown. Doesn’t that tell something to you?
Finally, as Cleopatra said later, remember that Mercy is a main support, not a dps. If she is not healing (for example because she is rezzing someone), her team is momentarily in a great disadvantage, so if her team is capable to hold on without one main support, that means that the situation is not that serious.
The weirdest thing is that those bad designs are old. This is the second time they commit the same mistakes (valkirie and current rez’s mechanic). I don’t know who in Earth thought that was a good idea.
Sorry, but no. Before it was a real struggle and strategic duel with the enemy time. Now it’s just a hide and seek game. It seems you only know about the exploit (hide and rez) which no ones want, not even the people wanting mass rez to come back.
Okay, and there are people with more hours than you, higher rank, more money spent on the game and more of all what you want than you that dislike her. Just because YOU like her is not a reason for telling us to shut up. She is bad design, as it got proved even before game’s release.
Good position = Near of somewhere to hide.
Bad position = In the mid of the fight.
Don’t you see something wrong here? Hide and rez shouldn’t be mandatory, but it really is.
I’m sorry, but now I’m going to explain you why current Mercy is bad design.
1- Basics: they are fine, they have no problem.
2- GA: accidentally changed (started as a bug) but properly added to Mercy’s kit. No problem about it, it’s fine.
3- Resurrect: Fyi, Mercy is a MOBILE support, so IMMOBILIZING her contradicts her main concept as a MOBILE support. Also, it rewards bad game from everyone, because it forces the Mercy to hide and sneak around, abandoning her team to its fate, while before she could be played 100% engaging without leaving her team nor hiding. Also, it encourages toxicity (primadonnas) and bad players, because it undoes little mistakes, so going out of position can be rewarded with a rez if the character is near of somewhere to hide. Piling up ultimates is now the best way to win 2CP scenarios because it has no counterplay now, and that’s a braindead strategy that shouldn’t be viable. It destroys all Mercy’s mobility, and as it happened in the past, causes Mercy to die a lot while rezzing, something that proved that design (original mass rez with huge cast time and huge slow down) as a bad design and caused it to be replaced by instant mass rez, which was healthier.
4- Valkirie: It’s not an ultimate. It’s like an unengaging amp it up that forces the Mercy to disengage in order to reach all her teammates. It saves no one because it doesn’t enhances Mercy’s healing already, just extends it. It removes all skill from Mercy’s basics because it does all the work for her, eliminating priorization and positioning awareness (you can just fly out of enemy range or even hide), but it really does nothing else than saving yourself, consolidating an already won fight or making up your lack of skills with Mercy. Are you bad at her? No problem, press Q and you will solo heal your team, or you won’t have to reload your weapon if you fail 4/5 shoots,… you will just fly, hold a button and relax. Even as it is right now, resurrect is more an ultimate than valkirie, and that’s a huge problem. In addition, it’s redundant, not game changing at all and it doesn’t feel even original. Originally, Mercy had valkirie instead of mass rez, and just because of a few of these complains it got proved as bad design, removed for good and replaced by something better and healthier called original mass rez (yes, mass rez with Mercy dying all the time was better than valkirie in terms of design!).
All this being said. Mass rez could have been no instant? Of course! The main problem was being a dummy for such a long time, so with no slow down it could have worked with a reduced cast time, not one that makes you feel as having a lag attack. Did they bother to give it a try? Nope.
Well, easy to say, but you gave us no proof of the opposite for example, and there are people from all types complaining about current Mercy, even the best world Mercys, who with no doubt are better than you in all features.
And here is where you lost all respect. If you have nothing constructive to say, you don’t need to be mean and snarky. Just move on.
Balanced? Nope, people says now that she is op still. Fine? Nope, she is two bad designs in just one. Sorry, but your own and single like means little to nothing in a game where the vast majority of players are unhappy with current Mercy.
And yes, we will continue complaining about an unbalanceable, boring, contradictory and straight bad design because almost everyone hates it, but at least we want Mercy to be good design again, and we are suggesting Blizz how to do it.
Oh, that’s interesting. I think that something got proved wrong with current Mercy… during game’s development and alpha/beta. Inform yourself. We linked our back ups before. Search them and don’t be lazy, we are a bit tired of repeating things to people that has no intention of being respectful. Burden of proof was showed long ago, but you want it in your tongue and previously chewed.
Please, don’t be ridiculous. I have seen hundreds of Winstons chasing Mercys and succeding. Also, you don’t need an ult for killing her. Finally, do you really want ALL Mercy’s kit to have a counter already? Sorry, but Winston’s jumps have no counter and no one complains. Winston primal rage sets his health to 1k and enhances his mobility and allows him to push everyone, and no one complains. However, Mercy can be sniped of killed during GA (too common to see) and it needs more counterplay because wow, now Mercy shouldn’t be able to do anything without risking her life!
Has Genji’s reflect some counterplay excepting “Don’t shoot him”? Has Lucio’s boop counterplay? Or Reaper’s wraith form? Just some examples.
Well, okay, valkirie takes no risk. You just hide or go out of range and that’s all.
Look, here I agree. It should never have been changed to an E ability. That’s why her kit now feels invested. No one calls her to use her ult, but her rez all the time. Resurrect still is more powerful than valkirie and it’s impossible to balance those two abilities without making the character insanely op or turning rez into completely useless. The only way it can work is in her ult’s place. Blizz only needs to change it, so hide and rez won’t be possible again, and it will have some added counterplay.
Nope. Resurrect has the longest cooldown by a long shot as it is right now. Doubling it would be straight bad design.
That doesn’t have to be true. Okay, maybe you are afraid of Mercy being unbalanced for sometime again, probably that is the point, but when you have an unbalanced unbalanceable design which has the highest level of complains in the game because of too many reasons, then nerfing her would create an enormous outrage in the Mercy community, and accepting her as she is now wouldn’t fix anything. The only solution remaining is a new start for good, a new rework. They did it during game’s development and game’s alpha/beta exactly because of the complains people are arguing now, so they can do it again.
Interesting question. Despite it wasn’t broken, they could have given it some added counterplay while giving Mercy a new E ability (not rez, of course) as compensation. Who knows why they decided to completely break her and try to balance the unbalanceable moth they created.
Ironically, in that case, they ended having to deal with an unbalanceable Mercy for months, and even now it seems that she is still unbalanceable. Blizz and Ow team’s reputation have been badly harmed in proccess too. Moral? Fudges are bad.
TLDR (at last): After like 2+ hours writing, I see they keep merging posts here. Well, welcome everyone who want to have a respectful and constructive conversation. I hope Mercy will be reworked sooner or later for good. This nightmare should have remained in the past where it belongs.
That would be Baguette’s whipy-whipy.
I see a lot of people saying that pro players only use Mercy in owl for pocketing, was wondering if anyone had a source for this or something. It may or may not be so I could argue with people about mercy and rez. pls and ty
Most of the interviews with the players themselves even state they play selfishly to get good stats
Also here is a Pro’s Hate Mercy interview… from the OWL Players, the 1% of the 1%… But bare in mind this is current Mercy not Mass Res Mercy, the issue with current Mercy is that she undoes INDIVIDUAL Deaths, so it is potentially more powerful than Mass Res. There no need to earn it and there no real need to consider when to use it, just use it when it is safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNX9jD-nJLQ
Also as a Mercy player myself, I tend to find myself in the position of making shot calls. But anyways Arc from NYXL advice on Mercy is to be Selfish
“I try to play selfishly,” Ark said. According to stats from Overwatch League analytics site Winstons Lab, Ark died only 2.7 times every 10 minutes in stage two, when the average across pros last stage was 4.3. But he also used his risky “resurrect” ability—which makes him momentarily vulnerable—less than any other pro, too.
https://compete.kotaku.com/overwatch-star-has-advice-for-mercy-players-be-selfis-1824993456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_IvHbHHvdo
Also there is the situation where Mercy and Widow received a boom in pick rates from Stage 2 to Stage 3… Mercy and Widow have a strong synergy. Some of these is contributed to the map pool and couching… majority of the 2016 and 2017 world cup, majority of these so called Pro Players never had couching except the Korean’s which is why they can … about and play Mystery Hero.
This is from November 2nd 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmSbtPMkw1M
Again the issue is about Undoing Mistakes, undoing single picks. Majority of the DPS players want to go in all gun and blazing.
I never contradicted myself. I played an active mercy. Always have and always will, but I also remember being told MANY times to stop healing and hide. “Just wait for the rez” “We will group, go hide” “Stop healing so you can rez”. This is what was expected, and I hated that.
This is something i never understood. I heard that extremely rarely and if, the player which said it, was overall very toxic. I played her for over 400H and everything which had to do with “hide&res” in game… I saw it never, ever succeed and almost never happen.
This is experience against experience, i know. But i played through all ranks (from Gold to high Master+ many GM matches) and i can count the amount, how often that was said and done in my games, on one hand.
I see no weight in that argument at all. Except that many listen to much to pro’s or Streamers.
I didn’t play a lot of Comp at that time, so I think a lot of it was coming from QP, but I know I am not the only one with this experience. Papa Jeff himself mentioned that they were wanting to get away from the “Hide & Res”, so it was a known issue.
Honestly though, at this point I think I am just tired of the changes and I just want them to leave her be. haha
Sometimes I have to “hide and res”, because a few cases are like this, as long as there are way to win, I will do it.
What does your selfish mean?