like without considering supports etc., it takes sym primary like ~2.3s to kill a 200hp target (with 100% aim) whereas it takes 1.7s for pharah to shoot twice to kill sym. and this is yet to include how pharah also has concussive blast to also immediately enlarge the gap between them.
like this is what I mean. a +3m or so on her primary doesn’t change all the other numerous conditions/requirements primary has to get value. This is why +3m or so on it doesn’t actually add much for sym overall.
which you can also do for orbs esp if they’re renumbered to having a longer aimiable range.
like if we want a more generalised solution, a renumbering of orbs make them aimable in midrange (or even a bit longer) would be it because you wouldn’t necessarily have to resort to turreting like that as much.
I disagree with the “much” bit as explained in previous replies.
Yes Pharah doesn’t need to charge up. But when sym has her lvl 3 beam that kills in 2 seconds ish. Pharah also needs to land direct hits. Sym needs to just hit anywhere on the body. And if you try it out in the practice range she has a generous hitbox. Sym has alot of ammo also, able to deal with shield comps. Pharah is dependent on lethality.
I have orbed Pharahs. It isn’t reliable. a 120 orb is chunky. But the 180 ish beam is more reliable.
getting to lvl 3 is like at least 1/2 of all the problems with primary. again, a sym isn’t going to stay alive in like ~15m of the enemy that long without her team pumping as many resources as now to allow sym to charge up. i.e. the +3m or so does nothing meaningful about its conditions of use.
the “if she has lvl 3” is a big ask irrespective of whether the beam is 12m or 15m long.
I’m pretty sure pharah that can aim wouldn’t have many problems landing directs on a sym when only 15m away from her… and again, a pharah can legit just fly higher outside of primary range in which sym primary deals 0 to her and she can just land splash to out poke sym.
and in which case, sym would have to go back to orbs. hence why improving the consistency of orbs by renumbering them around being faster moving projectiles (like 50~60m/s maybe depending on what the projectile size is changed to) is so much more meaningful of a change than a +3m on primary or so.
and I’m saying that if orbs are renumbered around being faster projectiles it would be more reliable to do so and would be a more generalised solution for the outcome you want.
again, I’m talking about a buff to make orbs faster projectiles to make them consistent and more aimable in midrange (like near 20m). and I’m saying that such a buff would be more meaningful, impactful and valuable alongside improvements to make tp a better self mobility tool, compared to just a +3m or so on primary’s range.
If you want an orb buff that is meaningful then buff her small orbs to be baster and have more baseline damage. As a way to make her gunplay better. Small orbs should go twice as fast and do maybe 40 ish damage baseline. As she can do around 3 small orbs per second?
I prefer the laser feels better. Right now you can spam small orbs to get very little chip damage. She should get very fast full charge orbs.
sure but remember it’s not going to solve many of her problems.
she currently achieves 4 orbs per second at most with 0 charge orbs. for a good orb numbering they’ll have to do something like ~50m/s speed, probs like 30~40% size reduction maybe, and then change the min charge damage a bit (atm it’s like 20) and maybe also reducing charge time to 0.75s for max charge to get the 1 orb per second when including wind down time.
Isn’t that really what most dps do, though? Widow just stands there and left clicks, Ashe, McCree. If they buff the other parts of her kit to the point that she is as powerful as strong dps characters instead, she’ll never get off the ground, because it would feel unfair. Actually powerful turrets would be awful for everybody. I could go for a teleporter rework, though.
16m is actually a decent amount of distance in this game. She would be pretty frightening in brawl, I would think.
what immediately has a dramatic increase in ttk against sym from sym being in 15m range as opposed to 12m range to let sym more reasonably stay in primary’s range for long periods of time to get meaningful value from it (note: She takes like ~2.5s to charge up to level 3 to start having decent dps)?
or how sym would no longer needs plenty of resources pumped into her to use primary from such a change?
If you don’t think that buffing Sym’s primary fire range from 12m to 16m would be an INSANELY huge buff to her survivability and viability, especially now that she has 225 health, you’re literally insane.
16m beam would probably push her into overtuned territory and you’re acting like it doesn’t make her good hilarious.
They should def try 14 or maybe 15 m on live though
still dodging the questions, flaunting around and adding 0 to the discussion. is this because you have no answers, logic nor anything of substance to justify your view?
In combat it would help, harder to kite symettra. It helps with aerial enemies. She can do reliable damage at safer distances. She can do more from high ground. It helps a bunch.
Alot of heroes can outrun a sym by just walking backwards.
whose ttk is still a lot worse compared to most heroes in the cast… i.e. still need to drain excessive amounts of team resources to let her m1 —> still highly situational primary fire that won’t get the uptime most of y’all want from it.
we’ve been over this one: not only does the earlier ttk point still hold but they also have the other option of flying higher outside of primary range and outpoke the sym (esp with echo considering she has more aimable projectiles).
I don’t know why you bring up ttk. Sym charges all her abilities up. Even her turrets. She is not designed to be bursty. If you get 3 turret up and orb someone that’s a fast ttk but it’s set up because sym isn’t a burst hero. She’s sustain. She can combo her orbs to one shot with like a baptiste. 1 vs 1 isn’t where Symmetra shines unless she’s up with someone who can’t aim.
hilarious.
