Experiment: tracking how often players counterswap d.va

General Discussion
1

tl;dr - read the bolded KEY TOTALS section

I decided play 10 games as D.va in Quickplay without swapping and tracking every time an enemy player swapped. I chose D.va because she feels like one of the most counterswapped heroes in the game and I am good enough at her to provoke counterswaps (unlike some other frequently countered heroes like ball). I chose QP over comp because it has been over 2 years since I played a competitive match as tank so my SR is probably a bit out of whack.

For the purposes of this, I am only considering a hero a hard counter if they are a part of the hypothetical team that would be formed if everyone on the enemy team counterswapped, that team is Zarya, Mei, Symmetra, Brigitte, and Moira. I was on the fence about whether to make the 5th moira or zen since neither are exactly brutal counters, but I looked for community discussion posts and moira came up more often, and also she felt like the hero a counterscrub would be more likely to rageswap to.

In addition to these hard counters, I’ll also be considering some general counters, these consist of anyone on the hardcounter list as well as the following heroes: sombra, roadhog, zen, echo. I know these lists aren’t perfect, they’re just my best job of combining personal experience and community opinion. If you vehemently disagree with any of these it is fairly easy to look at the swap list below and crank out your own stats

So to recap

  • Hardcounters: Zarya, Mei, Symmetra, Brigitte, Moira
  • Counters: Zarya, Mei, Symmetra, Brigitte , Moira, Sombra, Roadhog, Zen, Echo

The full game list is below with a list of every player on the enemy team, their original hero, and arrows ( → ) indicating every swap they made in order. Hard counters underlined and counters boldened. For simplicity sake I’m considering a backfill player as if they are the original player swapping heroes. I am not counting overtime swaps (e.g. swapping to mei to iceblock contest the point for the last 10 seconds), as swaps

For each match, I have provided the map, team info, winners, as well as a subjective match quality rating. This info is important, because during a stomp the winning team rarely feels the need to swap even if it would give them a greater advantage, while the losing team often desperation swaps constantly. Of the 10 games played, I won 4 and lost 6, 3 were hopeless stomps that had no chance in hell of being turned around, but the other 3 I’d say there was a greater than 50% chance we would’ve won if I swapped off of d.va.

So some stats:

  • 50 total enemies were encountered
  • 2 of them were already on hardcounters at the start of the match
  • 10 players swapped to hardcounters mid-match
  • so 10 of the 48 potential players hard counterswapped
  • 5 of them were on counters at the start of the match
  • 12 of them swapped to counters mid-match
  • So 12 of 45 potential players counterswapped

KEY TOTALS

  • If we only consider the hardest counters, 20.8% of players counterswap d.va
  • If we consider additional counters, 26.7% of players counterswap d.va
  • 40% of all tank players swapped to zarya
  • 50% of all tank players counterswapped
  • 80% of all games included at least 1 hardcounter swap

And keep 1 very important thing in mind THIS WAS IN QUICKPLAY, IN COMP THESE NUMBERS ARE LIKELY EVEN WORSE . I will also say that as I was playing, I personally felt like I encountered fewer counterswaps than I typically do

Game 1: New Junk City, Stomp, Victory

  • Wrecking ball → Mauga
  • Venture → Symmetra
  • S76 → pharah
  • mercy
  • Baptiste

Game 2: Colosseo, Average game, Victory

  • Rammatra (left) → Zarya → Orisa
  • Genji → Hanzo → Mei
  • Sombra → Bastion → Sojourn
  • Ana → Zenyatta
  • Illari

Game 3: Junkertown, Offense, Close Game, Victory

  • Junkerqueen → Roadhog
  • Hanzo
  • Widowmaker
  • Illari → Ana
  • Mercy → Moira

Game 4: Hollywood, Defense, Close match turned into stomp after counteswap, defeat

  • Rammatra → Zarya
  • Echo
  • Venture
  • Mercy
  • Lifeweaver

Game 5: Circuit Royale, Defense, Stomp, Defeat

  • Winston
  • Widowmaker → Ashe
  • Junkrat
  • Ana
  • Mercy

Game 6: Busan, hard stomp (Venture doing under 500 dmg per minute and our one healer claimed to be 300 ping), defeat

  • Doomfist
  • Cassidy
  • Widowmaker
  • Moira
  • Zenyatta → Brigitte

Game 7: Eichenwalde, offense, stomp (their tank was a smurf acc), defeat

  • Sigma → D.va
  • Junkrat
  • Mei → Pharah
  • Illari
  • Ana → Brigitte → Kiriko

Game 8: Samoa, Stomp turned into close match after counterswap, victory

  • JQ → Zarya → Roadhog
  • Cassidy → Symmetra
  • Hanzo → Venture → S76
  • Zenyatta
  • Ana

Game 9: Dorado, Defense, Average Match, Defeat

  • Winston
  • Genji
  • Tracer
  • Zenyatta
  • Ana

Game 10: Lijang Tower, Close match turned into stomp after counterswap, Defeat

  • JQ → Zarya
  • Pharah
  • Hanzo → Junkrat → Cassidy
  • Ana → Baptiste → Ana
  • Mercy
5 Likes
2

I am a horrible Reinhardt player and the counters happen relatively frequently. The few matches against an honorable tank are usually ruined by Bastion or Pharah anyways. It is like, whatever. I am used to it.

Personally, back when I was not playing Reinhardt, I loved that I could enjoy playing whoever I wanted into him. I am surprised so many people feel the compulsion to play their cringe crutch heroes over their “mains.” Let’s be real, these clowns do not main who they believe they main. It would, perhaps, be a different story if I was a dominate force. Crusader incarnate. Just bending the entire lobby over and all of that jazz. But I ain’t. I fly off the map with my victim. :joy:

4 Likes
3

I know when I’m doing good with D.va in competitive, it’s almost every game that at least the tank will swap to Zarya. If that doesn’t work, then sometimes they will also switch to Mei and possibly even Bastion. But if I see Zenyatta on the enemy team… that’s usually a free kill for me. I will wait until Zarya burns all of her bubbles and kill the Zen for free. Or I’ll go aggressive on them, force out the bubble from Zarya and just walk away so she hopefully doesn’t get any charge from it.

4

As a Support I hate having DVA as my tank but when I am on dps and echo I love it because I can dive with her and jump out. The problem right now is how many bad DVAs their are granted she takes a lot of practice to play her well but if its escort I honestly feel like she is the worst pick. I just dont really know I guess how to properly support a DVA when shes not diving because def matrix only lasts for so long. The problem tho is probably me and not the DVA players but I almost always want to dip out of a match when the tank picks her just because I will get tunneled down so fast because we have no tank providing protection I do kinda wish they would rework DVA so she functions better as a solo tank like they did with DF I guess I just need to find a support that helps her besides Zenyatta.

5

I never need to swap to counter anyone, I just pick sym and somehow barly make her work in every situation. (work doesnt mean I win)

2 Likes
6

This one always amuses me because they literally swap to a hero that they get hardcountered as just because he’s generally strong against tanks. 5v5 caused some hardcore tank derangement syndrome

7

Bastion can still do a lot of damage to you. He’s more synonymous with Soldier nowadays, plus he gets a turret mode where he can just delete people. The problem I see most often is that some people will burn their turret mode early when I’m full on DM and can run away from them at any moment.

8

I don’t really get your point with this topic. If I play hog I am counter-swapped every single game. And that is not an exaggeration. Within the first 3 fights at least 3 of the other team will have swapped to a hero that is very strong against hog. The most common are ana, zen, orisa, reaper, sojourn, mauga and so on.

The number of actual counters DVa has is tiny compared to the counters tanks that don’t have a magical matrix that is only weak to beams has. DVa is too strong and forces the enemy team to go beams. If they don’t like it then accept that matrix needs more downtime so other tanks can play against her on a more even footing.

1 Like
9

Feel that. Every time I even do remotely well on Winston, in comes the Mauga, Bastion, Reaper counterswaps. And now we also have giga-Junkrat in every match. Good lord, sweet Jesus I think I’m sitting the rest of the season on the bench, lol.

I’ve actually been learning Dva more since she’s a great counter to the above threats. Mind games. I forbid you to forbid me from entering the Forbidden Zone!

1 Like
10

Brigitte and Moira are not counters to DVa.

1 Like
11

LOL.

Even more lol. This list is just…wrong.

12

Very funny how you barge into a thread and widely announce “I did not read this” and just assume everyone will see it as a pwn

13

Yup, I’ll switch to heroes that have escapes because hook makes me scared. Even though Hog isn’t a combo killer, I still respect the hook.

14

With the revert to armor, Brigitte absolutely does counter D.Va. D.Va gains so little value trying to dive Brig.

Moira is more of a skill matchup.

15

Got 4 hours on Dva and every game ive tried her I end up seeing zarya after as much as one teamfight won, I just don’t play tank anymore it’s so unenjoyable

16

This is why a lot of tanks play Doom, he can be used against almost any other tank and has no real hard counters.

His mobility is so high he can basically fly around the map picking his battles. I wish some tanks had less of a hard counter style.

Dva - They swap to Zarya - You swap to Rein - They swap to Orisa - You swap to Orisa…eventually every tank goes Orisa!

There is only one tank, so a hard counter is 100% effective, unlike having 2 tanks where the offtank may counter the counter.

haha.

17

What do you expect? Matrix has so much uptime that tanks that fire projectiles/bullets are useless against DVa. The only option is to switch to a tank that uses something she can’t eat.

Until they give matrix less uptime they can’t rebalance DVa to survive better against beams. She is her own worst enemy. But DVa mains complain that they want her buffed because of beams. She is already too strong against non-beam tanks. They need to accept she needs her balance shifted a little away from matrix if they want things to change.

18

you want to know why dva is counterswapped so often?

answer this question, how do you kill dva without counterswap?

88% of people can’t answer that, 7% can answer but don’t want to say it and are waiting to follow the sheep.

19

just stop with this nonsence

1 Like
20

I know, right? They should just play a character they actually want to play. Weirdos.

1 Like