I feel like a key member of dive being the counter to anti-dive… sounds like a disaster. Kinda like a flanker countering an anti flanker or something 
10 Likes
Interesting changes; one of my problems would be the inconsistency with Mei primary fire and Brig shield bash (and to a lesser extent, Bap IF) being able to be blocked by DM.
As for more balance-oriented suggestions, I actually would like increased Orisa counterplay to earthshatter at least with the Fortify changes (maybe not the D.Va bomb bit), as long as shatter’s stun was made just a hair longer to compensate a bit. Not a lot of huge issues, just small concerns and misgivings that could probably be easily resolved or tweaked with with some playtesting.
I might come back to this after I’ve slept.
1 Like
I’d take it.
Being able to bodyblock a Shatter would be very valuable. Orisa is usually already dead to a D.Va bomb unless she has most of her health…I’m not sure why you would ever want to try to bodyblock a bomb!
(Still would love it if Fortify was switched to a resource meter, too.)
1 Like
The gimmick is “how do you make it so that DoubleBarrier is countered by Dive”, without making SingleBarrier suck.
This is adding way too many complexities to interactions and would propel DVa into absurdity tbh.
4 Likes
Well
- Fixing Tanks is all about more D.va/Winston/Orisa/Sigma usage
- A lot of the “absurdity” wouldn’t really apply except for the top 2% of the playerbase, which is already at the extremes. (And that Top 2% has been desiring a “Full Dive” meta for nearly 3 years. And were very happy when they briefly got one in October.)
- By doing it this way it has almost no negative effects on ELOs where coordinated Dives don’t exist. i.e. +90% of the playerbase.
- While also offering some good alternatives to mid/low-ELO doublebarrier cheese. (i.e. Run at them with Rein/Lucio/D.va)
- “Something” is always going to be the best at high tier, so it might as well be Dive, and not high durability bunker or high durability deathball. If they want real variety up at those ELOs they are going to need some sort of an equivalent to a player selected Hero Ban system. Otherwise, it’s a lost cause to try to convince them to use more than 8-10 heroes after a patch meta has been “solved”.
- I do have a “Roster Pick” concept that would solve most of that.
Super dumb. No
No
Super dumb changes, rest are ok
2 Likes
Can’t have heroes bodyguarding for Dive at close range who aren’t offtanks 
And ultimately if that means 0.02% of total players represented by high ELO Brig/Bap players quit. That’s hardly even a rounding error worth of players.
Where at a very minimum, not fixing queue times could easily lose more than that many players in a week. And at least 5-10% of the total playerbase over the long run.
Making D.va counter a bunch of things that make no sense is dumb. Removing almost all anti dive counterplay is insane and probably the worse idea on the forums to date
2 Likes
Why doesn’t anyone want to just nerf hitscan damage? It’s not that complicated. 
2 Likes
For the same reason you don’t do brain surgery with a meat cleaver.
Simple doesn’t necessarily mean good.
We don’t know, we’ve never tried it. Hasn’t even been in experimental.
Counter, sure. But all these changes make Dva insane and any Dva lead dives become uncounterable except for… Zarya? I’m all for Dva improvements, but these are not them… I’d rather see her base abilities improved to give her better mobility, more reliable at protecting allies, micro missiles track cursor so they do something other than being melee rockets 
hell let her repair her mechs armour based on the amount of damage she DMs.
As for double barrier, what about different types of barriers. For example have Orisa’s have a lowish health but make it “hardened” where it can only take a max damage of 10 (for example). That way rapid fire weapons can shred but it can’t be one shot by widow/Hanzo 
Have Sigma’s be unbreakable, but he can only have it out for a short time making it more an ability than “barrier” if you get me
If the alternative at high tier is
- High Durability Bunker
- High Durability Deathball
- ZeroBarrier meta
- “Rein or Lose” for all ELOs
- Dive
Then you pick Dive, because the alternatives are worse.
If you’re worried about GM tier Dives in Gold/Plat ELO. That’s just nonsense fear-mongering.
Except for OffTanks and Hammond. Is what it boils down to.
Which really only affects DoubleBarrier.
If you don’t have a Hammond/D.va/Hog/Zarya on your team. You got yourself a DoubleBarrier comp.
Agreed. You really don’t for high tier.
But it’s absurd to act like only the top 2% of the playerbase deserves Tank usage variety.
For Plat and below (i.e. +90% of the playerbase), you really do need barrier tanks that can offer a “Poke Damage Counter”, that’s an alternative to Rein.
And you cannot have that as long as DoubleBarrier at high tier can be nearly invincible at medium/long range, and have “AntiDive bodyguards” at close range.
Furthermore, changes like this are needed to make it so they can adjust Tanks to be more desirable overall, to reduce queue times.
All low ranks use Rein all the time no matter what the meta is. Making D.va virtually uncounterable won’t change anything. Dumb ideas
By making D.va uncounterable? Bad joke.
Most tanks are fine rn, no need for any of this
1 Like
Changing D.va won’t really change much.
However these D.va changes allow for a lot more Orisa/Sigma/Winston usage in Plat and below.
No, they make her uncounterable if she has a brain. Tf. Tanks are fine rn anyways
2 Likes
You know what’s a bad joke? Acting like high ELO strategies are a huge concern for mid/low tier players.
