The immediate trade off is he’s easier to hit or is putting himself out of the fight. It’s also very baitable. Besides, exoboots have a cooldown so they do require resources, no different from a crappy Mercy GA.
Okay, so imagine that we put a 3-4s CD on boots. I’m on low ground, and Winston and co. dive in on me. I’ve anticipated this and have my boots charged, and I jump to safe ground. My boots start the CD.
But now I’m on high ground and the enemy is on low ground. So how does this nerf really change anything? By the time they can get up to high ground, my boots will be off cooldown anyway and I can reposition again.
Nope, they don’t have a cooldown. He’s also not putting himself out of the fight, he can heal in the air or from high ground. Where do you think Bap is when this is happening? You jump DF, he’s dead. You get high ground when attacked by Tracer, she’s forced to switch target or retreat (mostly the latter), Reaper… lmao
Just because you don’t see the cooldown numbers running doesn’t mean they’re not there. The effective cooldown is the charge time, it’s what you want increased. Also you’re just naming the characters he’s countering again, no kidding they’re not going to be effective.
You can get attacked by someone else. You can use jump to dodge every DF ability by spamming all the time. Tracer can commit and chase you to high-ground using the rest of her resources. Reaper can (shouldn’t) E to you. And what does Bap lose here? Absolutely NOTHING.
If you can’t jump every time you land, you can get punished. Right now he has free non-cd mobility that punishes other heroes. Supports are high value targets to get, giving them omnipotent power is bad balance choice. I don’t have anything against other supports, only Bap.
No, I want once he uses the jump that it goes on 4 seconds CD. They can even revert the charge nerf back to 0.7 seconds.
He’s countering them because he HAS FREE VALUE, that’s the point. Remove free value and you can argue for skill then and actually countering something.
You don’t even understand the post. Using no RESOURCES TO COUNTER WHOLE HEROES IS BAD GAME DESIGN. He has the tool to counter these heroes already, lamp is too strong. Spammable mobility is overkill. This isn’t about getting outplayed, this is about fair matchup, even against a “counter”.
Just shoot him. Baptiste’s hitbox is really easy to hit and quite forgiving! The post I quoted was more listing Baptiste’s weaknesses in general because in 2019 nobody used him after the “new toy phase” wore off and then were left scratching their heads when Baptiste went from “perfectly mediocre” to “surprisingly viable.”
Just shoot the lamp though lol.
In the context of Overwatch, “mobility” typically refers to Omnidirectional movement capabilities, but I’m willing to defer to your definition of “mobility” for the sake of conversation.
Debate is all about definitions, baby!
By the same token, it can be argued that a player whose only strategy is to bum rush Baptiste and then complains when Baptiste uses his cooldowns is indicative of a lack of skill from the player in question.
Regardless, when forced into a corner, or when enough pressure is applied, Supports WILL use their cooldowns in order to avoid death. Seeing as how Damage Output is relatively stronger than Damage Mitigation, it’s simply a matter of attrition or waiting until the average player uses a cooldown because they got bored….that second one happens far too often…
The average reaper is, yes. You should try playing less predictably. My reaper is very unpredictable because I’ve seen enough reaper play to know what to expect. As a result, I fake out my opposition a lot or move so quickly that there’s little time to react.
Uhhh it’s true. DB deals enough damage over its duration to shred the lamp and anything standing within it. If your DB gets eaten, blocked, interrupted, or you die…you got outplayed. It’s as simple as that. There’s a reason I said “DB deletes the lamp and everything within” and not “reaper is very effective against Baptiste.” There are levels of counterplay involved when we look at the reaper-Baptiste matchup and interplay.
Hey man, sometimes better Baptiste players have excellent timing. You have to accept that sometimes players just outplay one another and you shouldn’t just chalk it up as an instant L because you can theorycraft scenarios in which you lose.
Correct. She has consistent damage output and a large magazine which is heavily amplified by damage boosts. Her magazine is enough to eliminate Baptiste even if he uses a fist pump, but it won’t be enough to overpower him if he’s also receiving support from his allied support. With that being said, if you can force both Supports to be focused on healing themselves and each other, that opens up the rest of their team to attack. A good Sombra player would do well to announce the opportunity so that her team may capitalize on it.
See my above comment about theorycraft in this scenario btw.
Don’t dismiss things just because you can envision a losing scenario because there is usually an opportunity for a winning scenario as well. It all depends on how you spin the story and whether or not you capitalize on opportunities instead of getting wrapped up in what isn’t immediately working in front of your face.
I see you agree with me.
Don’t dismiss it just because it doesn’t line up with your agenda. Acknowledge the weakness and capitalize on it.
Baptiste has lots of counters. Many of which have been listed yet you choose to refute them because you can envision scenarios in which you get outplayed instead of focusing on how you can outplay your opponent.
Good for him. Remember that you don’t need to metaslave every game. Select heroes in response to your opposition because it will usually result in easier victory!
Yeah. Sometimes you gotta use some time of the ult to chew through defenses. It’s kinda like holding High Noon past 2 seconds when D.Va tries stupidly DMing it too early, or when you use some time of hog ult to bust Shields before you start going for environmental kills for when you run the rip tire around for awhile to wait out a poorly timed Beat Drop.
Don’t be silly here, man. 2 seconds doesn’t have to always make or break an ultimate.
Who the heck said anything about Nano blade? I specifically mentioned blade by itself. If bap has lamp ready to use I think the better option would be to use Blade to force out Lamp and then nano a tank for cleanup while Genji does his thing.
You keep insisting that everything gets countered by Baptiste and it concerns me. You must be very bad at playing against Baptiste players
IF is an inherently powerful ability, much like Rez or Recall….or Hook.
Ashe outranges him, can pump out consistent damage, can use Dynamite to burn targets while IF is up, leaving them crippled and vulnerable to finishing blows for cleanup. Ashe can make short work of IF by shooting it. When IF gets used to block a major burst ultimate such as D.Va Bomb or RIP-Tire, you can summon B.O.B. to make quick work of the now critically weakned opposition. Ashe can output damage faster than Baptiste can heal as a general rule, and Dynamite versus any Support hero forces them to use self-sustain abilities early in an act of self-preservation. That is what I mean.
I’m going to assume that you just simply didn’t know any of this.
Part of the reason that I am able to identify the weaknesses of characters in the game is because I put a lot of thought and consideration into the kits of each hero and how they interact with one another. I also consider hitboxes.
You didn’t know that you could make IF useless by putting up a wall into it? 
It freezes the whole thing!
As for the “closing the distance” bit, having mei close enough to freeze support heroes is a very tricky situation to be stuck in, and many Baptiste players will panic, start wasting cooldowns, or frantically jump to avoid her. It usually doesn’t end well. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you how deadly Mei can be once she gets close enough to freeze any 200 hp hero.
I can’t deny this, but that’s no reason to write him off immediately.
Did you know that visor will target lamp? It’s an intentional feature! You have to be okay with the idea of using some ultimate time to deal with things that impede your ultimate, or you’ll never get better as a player. You must understand that other players will try to outplay you, and you need to work harder to outplay them.
Again, lamp is designed to resist ultimate
Abilities. How have you not grasped this yet?
Not all ultimate abilities absolutely have to outplay all regular abilities simply because they are Ultimate.
When I speak of Nano visor, the point I’m trying to make is that it is fast enough and powerful enough to render the lamp relatively useless.
That could happen, or soldier could get two. Stop theorycrafting and actually try it for once instead of playing DF, Reaper, and that other hero and whining about being outplayed.
Get better. It’s essential if you want to outplay your opponents.
Hell yeah I can. I’m sorry (not sorry) that it doesn’t agree with your agenda. You sound like the bossy kid on the playground who changes the rules of the game when you start to lose, and has an “everything-proof” shield as a last resort.
And that’s exactly why he’s effective against Baptiste. That, and because Whole Hog blows opponents out of Lamp radius. Hook can also yank opponents or Baptiste himself out of the lamp to secure kills.
Yes that’s one way to outplay tracer!
Now, think of some ways that you can outplay Baptiste as tracer 
For example, if tracer can start shooting him before he starts to crouch, she’ll usually be able to kill him before he can secure that high ground position.
It seems to me like you think that ultimates should be able to always succeed because they are ultimates, and that nothing should be able to outplay an ultimate ability except for another ultimate ability. Unfortunately, that’s not how the game works so you’d better get used to it and work on improving your strategy if you want to be successful. Part of that may be to swap to more effective heroes.
For example, Baptiste can’t just jump out of a high noon 
yes I know Baptiste has other potential options to counteract a high noon but it’s just an example leave it alone. The point is to get you to start thinking in ways other than “waste all my cooldowns to get to Baptiste and then die.”
When it comes to using resources to get to Baptiste, be conservative. If you waste your resources on the approach, you won’t have any left once you decide to pick a fight. That’s basically playing right into the Baptiste’s hands, and you have only yourself to blame when you serve yourself up on a silver platter like that!
You have to either use heroes with better ranges options or plan your engagement timing wisely because Baptiste has the capacity to evade, outplay, shoot, or deny the value of certain flankers. If you play smarter, you will succeed more often.
A lot of the situations I mentioned happen about as frequently as all of the situations you theorycraft about how you can get outplayed by Baptiste players.
From an outsider perspective, it seems like big easy value and may even seem effortless, but you must appreciate the level of restraint, foresight, and planning the Baptiste player put into:
- not wasting the lamp on something stupid like a random flanker or just tanking spam/poke damage
- throwing the lamp out quickly enough to save lives, but not so soon that it can be destroyed or hacked before it can be effective
- not throwing it out so early that the rip tire can just zoom around for another 5 seconds before circling back for a triple kill
- not dying so that he can be alive to make that clutch lamp play.
Bap is balanced.
Stop playing heroes that Baptiste can easily jump away from.
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Cool, so you’re approving of heroes that have the tools to counter everything in the game and disapprove others who don’t have that potential.
You defending Baptiste is like, he can outplay and he can do this and that and be amazing, and yet, other heroes don’t have that options. They waste and use stuff to actually trade off things, unless you’re a Baptiste player, then it’s ok to trade ultimates for basic skill, trade enemy abilities with no cost to you at all… BUT HE OUTPLAYED THEM.
You don’t know what I’m like at all, so don’t go personal into this. I’m saying you don’t understand game balance if you defend free value against actual value. You’re defending the skill ceiling of a hero that other heroes can’t even dream of. And above all else, you call him balanced. Everyone knows that Bap is overpowered. I took Exo Boots on this post because Blizzard apparently refuses to rework IF.
He has all the tools to outplay anyone… but he’s “balanced”, while others can’t.
I acknowledge your straw man and reject it.
All abilities have value which is relative to how and when they are used. I think the only real “free value” in this game is lucio’s auras because it literally only requires you to exist within a certain proximity in order to impart the effects.
It also seems like you think that damage is more valuable than support? Am I misunderstanding your post?
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You’re misunderstanding everything alright.
Saying Bap is balanced is wrong.
Saying that free value is good for the game is wrong.
Lucio switches between speed and heal, it requires commitment if you want to heal. There’s nothing free there, he’s either using one or the other, can’t use both. Has CDs for Amp and Boop and his ultimate is mostly used to COUNTER other ultimates or make hard engages. He’s always trading value for value.
But what do I know, you acknowledged my “straw man” and rejected it. I lost all the argument as soon as you put yourself in a higher position. No point in arguing game balance with you. I say Bap has 2 ultimates, you say he requires skill… I say that’s not balanced, you say “someone got ouplayed by Baptiste”.
Amazing…
That’s just, like, your opinion, man.
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I just saw you’re a console player. I don’t have experience on console, maybe the story is different there.
Do you play on PC as well?
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Well which is it? Does he have two ultimates or does he have 1 ultimate and “1 basic skill which counters everything! 
”
I said that because I want to explain how IF has insane value by calling it an ultimate, but you knew that already. Shame on you 
In my opinion exo boots are good as they are but it gets problematic sometimes in duels because of his very high damage
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I did, but I wanted to call you out and poke a bit of fun. If you’re gonna be biased, at least be consistent 
As for your pc/console question, I haven’t played much PC in 2020 or 2021. For half of 2020 my pc was down with a particularly nasty Trojan (had to do lots of reformatting, downgrading and reupgrading Windows, etc) and I’ve been working a lot and dealing with roommate drama, moving, and playing other games on Xbox so I haven’t been engaging with Overwatch on pc even though I did reinstall it.
I also used to primarily play Overwatch and other pc games with close friends of mine, but we had a falling out and so I just haven’t played much pc as a general rule
Hell as it is I’m currently on vacation in Florida and will be driving cross-country back home to Texas and that’s where this whole next week is going 
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Ehh sorry about that, I know these feeling all bit too well unfortunately (the reformatting and the drama 
)
Enjoy the vacation though, buy some exo boots on the way, they’re pretty good.
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I’m conflicted because we have such vastly different opinions on Baptiste, but I can’t help but agree with everything you say about lucio.
I’m a Lucio main btw.
When it came to my “free value” statement, I was literally speaking only about having the aura active and standing near an ally without any regard to Lucio fundamentals or gameplay etc
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Good, he’s by far the most fun support to play imo, not even talking about the reddit lucio, but he’s fun too. 
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Reddit Lucio annoys me, but I do partake from time to time.
I am. I deserve it. Not gonna stress about all the unfinished business I left back home, or the drama…
I’ll see if I can find some boots.
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