How on Earth is it alleviated? Enemy team simply plays Counterwatch, your off-tank is dead first every fight, you lose ez gg go next
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okay queue times will be longer w/ 6v6 what’s your counterargument?
Issues that caused long queue times in 6v6 are gone. Try again.
I mean…yeah, it’s still not a good idea to play into counters. EVERYTHING counters double off tank though.
the matchmaker has to find 2 extra players for you to play the queue times will be longer
As in having six players, but at the same time it was originally designed around having any mix of 6 heroes even copies of said heroes.
That and well most tanks don’t mix well, and have specific jank that keeps them from doing that in a lot of casses. A lot of Anti-synergy as you would. Such as d.va using DM at the same time as zarya bubbling her.
A hog hooking a target intended to be charged by rien or jumped on by winston.
The game wasn’t made to handle the likes of dive, bunker, and more. That forced the devs to produce heroes that actively counter the entire comps as whole. Be it brig with dive or Sigma with bunker.
If you staked 5v5 tanks in a scenario where you have both double dps/supports to cover all your damage/sustain/utility needs. You would have some of the most overpowered versions of comps like dive, as were talking versions of these tanks that have nearly all the buffs they every had stacked together, with more health, better damage, and the tank passives that remove most of the easier ways to get instantly gib them.
Combo’s like cage and rampage, where the only way to cleanse the rampage would be to for kiri to trap her self in the cage trapping her self.
And still have double barrier because ram is just another version of old orisa and sigma.
It’s not balanced for 6v6 at all.
By her self, a d.va that dived solo into a old mei. would get frozen 100% of the time. headshot mutliple times destroying her armor, and then be opened up for free sleeps/stuns/spam.
Ignoring DM is still a heck of an advantage. Be it that beams were balanced around the fact that alot of tank match ups don’t have barriers to play around or have barriers up for long. So they don’t have the wacky damage numbers, range, and CC they use to have.
Except no, not everything countered double off-tank. It was possible to play it and with the current roster, would be even more effective. There were correct options and incorrect options, and there are still correct options and incorrect options. Nothing has changed other than there being more incorrect options.
Oh my, it’s almost as if people would be more inclined to play the role that required 2 extra players because the issues that lead to a decline in OW1 are gone, and the issues that are causing a decline now would be solved.
Doom and D.va, Queen and Mauga, Ram and Sigma, Rein and Zarya, Winston and Doom, Winston and D.va. There are new synergies and old ones would return. A few would obviously require tweaking.
Brig was born because Blizzard refused to nerf flankers. That is simply incompetence on their part, and even more so for Brig herself.
Tracer, Sojourn, Widow, Ana and Zen are meta/have been meta because the removal of a tank removed what kept them in check, choice and the potential of being dived without the team being abandoned.
Good thing Mei is no longer a CC beast and part of the reason 6v6 queue times went down lol
2 Likes
i don’t think you understand what i’m saying
finding 11 players is more difficult than finding 9
and tank players are on rarer side
queue times will be undoubtedly longer
Tank players are on the rarer side because of bad balancing. The issues of OW1 tanking are gone. The issue of OW2 tanking is some tanks are broken or are garbage because there’s only one of them. That issue would also be gone.
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying lol
balancing aside finding 11 players is more difficult than finding 9
queue times will. be. longer.
Not. If. The. Game. Is. Balanced.
You’re saying that they have a really hard time balancing tanks when there is only one to balance, but if they made it so they had to balance around two tanks (which is much, MUCH harder), they would be able to easily do that?
no it’s mathematically impossible for them to find you players faster
and games have a natural decline over time
even gaming’s juggernauts like fortnite and LoL have experienced this and this amplifies this effect w/ time
queue times will be longer regardless of how you spin it
You mean like the months of patching that didn’t do anything but nerf said tanks into the ground, while the comp in question still was top dog.
Ya their is a reason why brig exists, and reason why we went from open que - hero lock - 2-2-2, and then 5v5.
“Tweaks” never really worked.
A. they did. in a few different ways.
Moria, being a support that couldn’t easily be dived via healing and beam damage, while also can use fade to just dip from pulse bomb.
Sombra just turning off the likes of blink and genji’s deflect/dash.
B. the issue was with tank stacking, as like even post 2-2-2 the likes genji, sombra, and more kind of just werent relevent, even tracer would disapear from the meta in a lot of cases.
Even tho the prior heroes (not tracer) )were just nothing but buffed in the mean time.
Ana isn’t good at the moment, zen is played but in specific comps where they actually can keep him alive long enough to matter.
Tracer is only really good at like tip top 500. Where the crazies can trace peoples head from point blank, and perfect blink execution.
Widow is very hit or miss and mostly dependent on map.
Sojourn is good, but also like in the mix of quite a few heroes that all are in the same tier as her. I do believe soldier is currently more popular then her.
Strawmaning much?
Not what I said, I’m just pointing that ya “D.va” did have weakness to beams. Doubly slows as they would even impact her jets.
Just that in combination with winston, she never had to deal with those weaknesses. which was a problem because, it through out the intended means of dealing with these characters. Limiting the options that were actually viable at given time.
Yes lmao.
In 5v5 you have to make sure the tanks are strong enough to stand on their own whilst not being broken. S1-S5 Junker Queen was dumpster tier and did not stand on her own. S8 Mauga was the Devil himself. S2 Doom was the second coming of Christ. S9 Rein was walking ult charge.
Not to mention, you also have to balance the other roles, which they’ve utterly failed in. Ana was hard meta for 8 seasons in a row because you just anti the tank and win. After the mid-season patch, she will likely go back to being meta for another 8 seasons. Sojourn has been hard-meta for the majority of the game’s lifespan because she can melt or ignore every tank except D.va and Sigma. The rest are ult charge or a mere distraction. 6v6 kept instakill characters in check because one tank could protect the team and maintain the frontline, and the other prevent angles from being used to get free instakills. Sojourn will also probably go back to being hard-meta after the midseason patch.
The only role we’ve had any diversity in is tank because it sucks lmao. We haven’t had DPS variety from S3-S8 and support variety from S1-S8. Only until S9 were things shaken up, and then they will immediately go back to how they were.
Eh didn’t stop me from climbing to diamond with her during that time. For the most part people were just way to focused on shout being a big team push mechanic.
While in reality knife was always her best tool and can do things like pull a dive tank back after they attempt to run away. While it’s low cooldown let get multiple knifes per fight, which basically gave you multiple mini hog hooks to play around.
they buffed that aspect of her after the fact.
one thing you don’t understand is that good balancing doesn’t guarantee player retention
constant updates and exciting new content do!
moving 6v6 takes time away from updates and new content that we could potentially get
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Because Blizzard has favourites lol.
None of them worked until Brig because they never nerfed the problem itself.
Tracer has never not been good outside of the GOATs period thanks to Brig.
I’m aware lol? There’s a reason I said have been/are meta.
Tracer still has good winrates in dropkick ranks lol. It’s not her initial S9 winrates where she dominated every single rank, but she’s still better than she ever has been for the past 8 years.
Sojourn is the meta lol. The others are below her.
Did is the main word. Mei could easily stomp her in 6v6, even with Winston. Zarya being meta in S3 also could stomp D.va, but Zarya hasn’t been strong since that season and what allowed Mei to stomp D.va is gone. D.va can easily 1v1 Moira and Mei, Symmetra is a rarity and is easily dominated by the others in the DPS roster, and Zarya is circumstantial. Only way to change that is break Zarya again or give Mei’s primary fire freeze again, which is just no.
One individual’s experience differing from the majority doesn’t prove she’s good. For those seasons she was fodder to Rein, despite him being on the bottom of the roster for the most part lol.
Except bad balancing and no updates lead to the decline in players in OW1 lol
that is unrelated to what i said
It’s completely related because the reason we went to 5v5 was because no updates and poor balancing. It was never about the requirement of needing two players itself, it was about no one wanting to play the role because CC was everywhere and nothing new was happening with the game so there was a decline overall in the playerbase, felt most with tank.