Your arguments are all that the balance team is failing at balancing right now, but for some unknown reason, you think they’d be magically good at balancing if it was 6v6. What an odd opinion, lol.
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It’s almost as multiple of the balance issues of 6v6 have ALREADY BEEN SOLVED, meanwhile nothing is being solved in regards to the balance issues in 5v5. Blizzard is so incompetent that they’ve actually managed to find a way for Ana and Sojourn to dominate tanks harder with the upcoming armour changes lmao
Pardon? I don’t think I follow.
I feel like others may have answered this one better than me.
I think it’s gotten harder to define off tank and main tank in 5v5. I never really saw the issue with getting two off tanks on a team if they were playing well, it would happen most games as there were more off tank players than main tank players so you had to adapt to not having a comfy main tank most games.
With double shield I always saw it as a balancing issue. The 5v5 equivalent to it would be the numerous unkillable tank metas we saw in 5v5, the worst being probably mauga meta. They’re not quite the same, but they’re very similar in that matches would stale for a long time with no one being able to break through and they were both balance issues. I think 6v6 has the edge here though because we’ve seen 6v6 in balanced states more than 5v5, I honestly think 6v6 is easier to balance tanks.
I’m not quite convinced on this, and yeah we haven’t really seen much of that. I think this might have the opposite of tanks needing to become all rounders to fit 5v5 and making samey in the process.
I’m all for discussing this, reason I made the thread.
Though I don’t see what you mean by the original game being built on the foundation of counter picking, I see a lot more counter picking in 5v5 than I did in 6v6, tanks swapping after first death to counter is an example, and then them going back and forth with the counter swapping.
I’m not sure about your last point, there was counterplay to dive, though it was at its strongest at the end 6v6’s life due to some balance issues. Similarly, there have been comps that have been way too strong in the 5v5 environment too.
Thing is there were multiple reasons the queue times for dps ended up being so high.
DPS, being the most populated role, overwatch being dead. Getting rid of the need for a 2nd tank decreases the queue time temporarily, but with tank being such a miserable role to play in 5v5, less and less players play tank by the minute and queue time increase once again. I’ve actually seen support queues being longer than DPS before queues(though I haven’t really checked the queue times for s9-10), so I think with the current amount of tanks in the roster and if they were fun to play, we could see fast queue times across all roles.
Brb I need to catch up on all the messages and get some tea
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it’s done! move on!
now we have a game that’s built around having 5 players per team
new characters have been designed around it
new maps have been designed around it
UI elements and interactions have been designed around it
moving to 6v6 will cost development time to adjust these things some maps and characters may need reworks
that takes time away from things that actually can guarantee player retention as opposed to something that’s not exciting and may or may not elevate the experience and has a very obvious and crippling downside
Out of the 3 tanks that have been added, only one has been suitable for 5v5 lol.
Mauga is an abomination to balance and Queen sucked for the first half of the game’s lifespan.
So no, the game is not balanced around 5 players and never will be without a full rework of the entire roster which is virtually impossible.
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when did i say it’s balanced around 5v5?
Man’s forgetting his argument 3 minutes later
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that doesn’t mean they were balanced around it
they were just designed w/ 5v5 in mind
balance does not matter as it can’t guarantee player retention
Bad balance leads to players leaving lmao.
Launch Brig caused such a noticeable drop in the playerbase that Blizzard had to publicly apologise for making her, and S8’s MaugaMauga meta also caused players to stop playing.
That said MaugaMauga meta is directly a result of attempting to balance his kit into 5v5 when quite obviously he is supposed to be an OW1 off-tank.
yes and they’re working on balancing 5v5 slowly and this won’t require multiple maps and heroes being reworked in an instance unlike 6v6
changing numbers is quick and cheap designing new abilities changing stuff in maps are time consuming and expensive
this is the time and money that could go towards designing new heroes, events and maps which will guarantee player retention
And they’re failing horribly because it cannot be balanced. The upcoming mid-season patch changes armour in a way that curbs Tracer’s effectiveness and has the potential to take us out of this godawful Tracer-mirror meta, but it also makes Ana and Sojourn stronger against tanks so we’ll just go right back to the meta we had before S9.
“In some form”, well buddy we are not talking about 2 entirely different games, of course “some” of the issues are going to be there, the whole point is about that “some” being better.
And yes, issues coming or existing in 6v6 are, overall, better.
FACTS are not changing though, any issue present in 5v5 will still be worse in 6v6 and due to how permutations work, balance/queue times will be critically bad. Like INSANELY worse in comparison.
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that’s just opinionated
it can be balanced and i believe we’ll go into season 11 w/ the game feeling pretty great
Oh, so Counterwatch will be fixed and Sojourn and Ana won’t be able to erase 90% of the tank roster?
Blind optimism is opinionated, I’m only discussing what we’ve already seen and is factual for the past 10 seasons.
we haven’t even played the mid-season patch and people make wild claims about how things will turn out whenever a new hero comes out or drastic changes are made and most of them turn out being less than accurate
i’m saying that we’ll go into season 11 w/ the game feeling great bc we had massive changes in season 9 that threw the game off balance and that’s natural and it’ll take them a while to get it right w/ adjustments and i think the mid-season patch will put a lot of stuff in the right place and small remaining stuff should be sorted out by season 11
it can be balanced it definitely can be balanced
6v6 isn’t an alternative it’s a massive time sink which hurts the game in more ways than one
The current meta is based around dive because Tracer is broken. Tracer has received multiple nerfs and the armour change will also be nerfing her, if she falls out of meta, so does the dive meta. The armour changes buff Sojourn and Ana because they both will be doing increased damage to tanks + Brig, Torb and Bastion. Sojourn and Ana were meta before S9 and weren’t nerfed going into it (Ana got buffed in fact), it’s just the DPS passive forced a dive meta based largely around Tracer being broken and thus forced Ana off her 8 season meta-streak.
Sojourn and Ana will be meta again for another 8 seasons without a new character being broken and demolishing the meta lol, Blizzard has zero intention of nerfing either.
how does this make the development time needed to move to 6v6 not a waste of time?
Because Ana was kept in check by 6v6 lmao. She became an issue in 5v5 because all choice and decision making was removed, it was just anti + sleep tank = gg go next. Sojourn would’ve been in the same boat as Widow and Hanzo, also kept in check by 6v6 because they were always under threat of being dived by the one target they couldn’t instakill, the tank, while the enemy team was still protected by another.
Hell, even the current Tracer meta is allowed to exist SOLELY because there isn’t a second tank to protect the backline.
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Why do you think this though. They don’t seem any better to me, I actually still think they’re worse in all cases where the issues overlap.
I think the dynamic of 6v6 SUPPORTS the whole team instead of relaying the help from the support team. I mean they are supposed to support you but tbh the 2nd tank does so much for supporting