I’m not talking to you.
I’ve been respecting your wishes and not responding to your incorrect statements, please stop instigating a discussion with me that neither one of us wants to partake in. Thank you.
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That’s the problem…elo hell is this mindset. This is NOT CoD or Halo with objectives. This is a TEAM based game which is designed to be played as such. Those wanting to play Call of Duty or Halo with objectives should do it in quick play and leave competitive to those wanted to play it the way it’s meant to be played.
It is not my fault for playing Reinhardt the way he’s supposed to be played.
Once again I think you’re confusing this game with others…
I do give direction. I call out enemy locations, I push (not rush) in gradually, taking in my surroundings and relaying what I see to my team. When I’m on a team that is cooperating and playing the way the game is meant to be played, we steamroll the opposition. When I have crazy flankers who are treating this like CoDuty or Halo it’s a loss… that is what makes it elo hell.
I shouldn’t have to dumb down my play style. The fact that I’m going to need to is what makes it elo hell.
So in essence you are proving, with all your statements, that elo hell does indeed exist.
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Ohh, did you get boosted and don’t want the system to work properly?
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Anything bigger than a 3 stack and MM works against you, you will be playing teams well beyond your SR.
This needs to go first. As it would remove many of the “I had a thrower on my team” issues. There should be incentives to play full stacked not penalties for it.
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Yeeeep.
I didn’t understand why there are so many ardent DPS mains who won’t give up the role in Comp until recently.
It’s like they take a pile of points from both teams and promise to divvy them up amongst the participants based on their performance. If you do poorly and lose, you lose more points. If you did well and won, you get more points.
Unfortunately, the sole criteria the game seems to use for determining performance is “elims/damage/final blows”. And you’re competing with everyone in the match for those points. Even your fellow teammates.
I mean, a win as a Support/Tank gives 5-20 SR. Winning the same match as DPS with top elims/damage/final blows grants you 70-100 SR. Literally between +400% and +1900% more than playing tank/support.
When you see those numbers, it’s pretty obvious why everyone wants to be a DPS main. You’d need a ludicrously high win rate to even break even as Tank/Support in solo queue since you receive virtually no credit for victories (5-20 SR, “you didn’t help much”) and all the “blame” for the defeats (50-70 SR, “if you had killed more people as Mercy, your team would have won”).
I love playing Lucio to death, but Blizzard is just telling solo queuers to become a DPS main otherwise you get sent to Wood League where a Lucio can score Gold Elims and Silver Damage. And still lose. And it’s still “his fault” the team lost because he didn’t have top elims and damage and final blows out of all 12 players in the match.
Really, it’s a ridiculously punishing system for anyone except DPS mains.
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I think the concept of ELO hell is the inability to escape your ELO. At least that is how I have taken it.
So who exactly wrote the playbook that tells someone “how to play” Rein… or really any hero in the game.
Rein has a skillset. A toolbox. It can be used in different ways in different ways. I can’t comment on HOW to play rein at different tiers, because I don’t olay him much. But he isn’t any different then anyone else.
Symm. We’ll just use her turrets as an example. In lower tiers you can group up your turrets at a choke and instantly kill a bunch of people. You can’t use her turrets like that in higher tiers.
People argue about it all the time. Oh you need to group up turrets or they are worthless. Symm is countered by winston because he just eliminates all her turrets if they are grouped up. There is no “right” way to play symm.
If you want to graduate to a higher bracket, you have to first prove you are better then the lowest tiers. They have their own meta because they don’t play the game wrong. They play it differently.
The reason why is pretty simple.
Bad individual performance is beaten by bad team play. Bad team play is beaten by good individual performance. Good individual performance is beaten by Good team play.
It is a cycle that goes all the way up to owl in different tiers. You have to adapt to each game.
If your team performes bad teamwork… the individual skill of each person will defeat you. But you have to have a team. The lower you go, the more people there are that rely on individual skill because they lack the knowledge of how to work as a team because they come from all these deathmatch kind of games.
If your strength that you bring is teamwork… but you don’t have a team… your team has bad teamwork… and you can be beaten by even worst teamwork, but better “skill”. If you have to rely on skill, but you are short on it… then you lose.
As you go up… you must balance your improvement in teamwork with your ability to perform the tasks. If someone can out position you or out aims you… you need to have better teamwork to do it… or you have to be better skilled then them.
So the big argument is… should your rank be based on your knowledge, or your performance?
It is based on both.
So, when you don’t have good teamwork… you can’t blame your team because you can always completely outskill the other team to overcome the enemy’s bad teamwork.
That is until you reach the point where everyone’s skill at each hero is about the same… That doesn’t happen until about diamond and masters… where skills are harder to distinguish.
It is probably why the devs made diamond the cutoff for pbsr.
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Actually it is kinda a misconception. Someone did a reddit post awhile back researching which stats that corrilated to SR gains.
Like Mercy, it was heavily tied to rez’s, zen I think it was offensive assists, lucio was environmental kills I think. Orisa used to be heavily weighted on assists (which is why high lvl Orisa’s you would find them spamming halt until it got changed)
A lot of dps were elims and stuff that is very easy to measure if you were doing well because they corrisponded with those shiny medals.
Basically, what it came down to was while the on-fire stat didn’t directly lead to pbsr gains… the same things that a character does well that leads to on-fire also leads to gains in SR.
The reason the devs skirted around it by saying that on-fire doesn’t effect sr… which while technically correct… it was because the pbsr ranks you how you perform against others for the match… or per min.
If you go on a point streak and get on fire once in the match, but don’t do anything… you can still get less SR compared to another hero that had their fire meter half filled for the whole match but never got on fire.
That, and for some heroes some of the stats that add fire… like elims for mercy… are not counted. It is just a general mess.
They also wanted to throw people off the track so that people were not stat farming.
Ultimates are also weighed heavily. It is why swapping heroes mid-game seems to be punished. Because the SR system literally does if you swap at the wrong time. If you ult stat is low compared to people that don’t switch off the hero on a per-min basis… your stats will suffer and so will your MMR/pbsr.
Until they get the stats for every hero properly associated with winning and ranking people accordingly… having your SR determined by it makes competitive… well… less competitive and more like QP with a number.
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tl;dr version: SR gains and losses are based on crappy KPIs. Only the DPS KPIs make any sense and function properly.
This means everyone who isn’t playing DPS looks incompetent to the MMR system. So victory or defeat, the DPS look like they’re pulling their weight and are thus not penalized as heavily as their teammates. From the MMR’s perspective, every victory is because DPS carried, every defeat is because tanks/supports are invalid dunces.
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I can agree with you here 100%. Unfortunately I’m not the greatest at 1v1, hence why I play tank and support. Im a team player,I’m tactical. I’ve never been good at CoD or Halo in multiplayer.
Wise words. I dropped 650 SR this season as Orisa, playing her the same way I played her to maintain 2350 last four seasons.
After some bad placement games, ended up in a death spiral to 1700. Playing Orisa as one would in a mid gold match is no good. Hardly any comms and team mates constantly running to their dooms in front of barriers.
Not that barriers really mean much anymore, with damage buffs for Dva, Bastion, and Junkrat in every game.
My Rein shield now lasts 4 seconds on average at a choke. Not a lot of time.
I’ve started to embrace the chaotic death match nature of silver and have climbed 300 SR in last 20 games with circa 80% win rate. I play Lucio and Moira. I am using death match mode to improve my mechanics. This is, after all, an fps and teamwork and game knowledge only gets you so far.
Also, keep a good kd ratio so that Mmr rises and match maker sets you up for wins. Hard to do this as a rank with the crappy healing at low ELO and how quickly dps melt you nowadays.
You know I used to not believein ELO hell either, because my main has remained at 3600-3800 sr for all 9 seasons and I exclusively play comp, so we’re talking hundreds of hours. I play a variety of off-meta so I’m not a one trick dps or support. I have 55-60% winrate with 7 heroes all over 50 hours of play so no small sample size either.
I created a few more accounts to master heroes I suck with and now I’m hardstuck 3400 diamond on both of those, even when I default to my main heroes. It seems to me once you get into masters most of the players are equally competent in any hero required of them, whereas in diamond people are only competent in their mains. What this means is that if their main is facing a counter they just throw the game because they cant adjust.
Ultimately climbing out of diamond is more or less a gamble on matchmaking. I think bliz rigs the game to force mains vs. counter mains to test you. If you dont have at least 5 solid winning mains that can counter most other comps then you’ll just be stuck at 50/50 winrate forever and thus wont climb anymore.
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If elo hell doesn’t exist, OP, then how can people prove to you that they have accounts of it existing? Sure, you may have not become hard stuck like some people, but at the end of the day… You’re at the mercy of matchmaking in competitive and it’s a coin toss whether or not you get a good team. Some days you get on and you have like 5-10 matches in a row where your teams are really good and actually cooperating.
The next time you get on, you may have 5-10 matches in a row where nobody communicates, you always get a one-trick, someone is always toxic, you have a leaver, thrower, etc. and you lose every match. That’s just the way it goes sometimes. I have seen bronze players that absolutely did not play like bronze at all, yet I’ve seen diamond and above that play closer to silver-gold, so it works both ways. Not everyone is at the rank they belong.
The best way I’ve heard elo hell described is like this:
40% of your matches you will win regardless of your picks
40% of your matches you will lose regardless of your picks
20% of your matches will be determined by skill
This right here is actually true. I’ve seen it happen since season 1, man. I’ve lost to teams running 6 DPS, but I’ve also won against teams while running 6 DPS as well. You usually either get steamrolled or you roll the other team. 20% of those matches are actually close though because both teams are cooperating with each other, coordinating, and there’s not an ounce of toxicity, so it all comes down to skill.
Now, if we lived in a world where skill was the only thing that determined our wins or losses, you’d be onto something here. However, due to the unknown variables, which you basically just threw into the wind and discarded, pretending they don’t exist, you can’t simply say “we all belong at our rank” because it takes more than just the individual to make up their rank. This is a team game, so please stop conveniently forgetting that 5 other players factor into your equation.
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This Guy know Whats up!
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I actually missed that reply, so I appreciate you replying back to them so I could give them a like for that post. As a tank/support player myself, my role relies heavily on the performance of my team. In layman’s terms… If the DPS sucks, I might as well be trash too, lol.
If I’m not seeing us get elims on the kill feed, I’m pretty much a sitting duck on a tank or support since I can only do so much with either role. This is especially true in my case as a Rein main.
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I logged in just to reply to this, lmao. But yes, THIS is exactly what Elo Hell is.
As someone who has gotten better at the game but has 200 hours in season 2 and 150 hours in season 3 (before they changed QP to single hero and i started playing that more) where i was new and learning; climbing up in subsequent seasons is ridiculously frustrating. I was definitely gold~low plat when i first started playing Overwatch, and thats where i was in season 2 and 3.
i have so many hours in low Plat (5~6 seasons ago) and thats where the MMR thinks i should be. Closing onto Diamond, 2900SRish, I was getting ~10 SR a win and 30SR a loss despite having gold medals or high damage or whatever. To this point I just gave up and accepted i was hard locked at plat. its become so frustrating to me that I have less and less time in comp which just makes it worse cause i do my placements, place plat and leave. This is elo hell for me.
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Most accurate description ever
I’d like to add though.
The ranked mode of your game also has no set teams, yet your rank is based on your teams performance, and you can have any where from olympians to special olympians and everyone in between.
Oh and accuracy, goals per minute, and swing speed don’t matter, cause stats don’t matter. Working as intended!
This post sounded like it started out with good intentions, but then you closed with “stay gold bro”. Yeah, no… I haven’t been gold in forever and a day, lol. I’ve basically been hard stuck in high plat (but made it to diamond a few times, just never stayed there) for a few seasons now. Rein is in a really bad spot right now, but even before this meta, he always relied heavily on his team, so if his team was bad, he wasn’t going to see much value or look good himself.
He’s an anchor tank, so everyone kind of has to play around him (flankers or snipers excluded). My only problem with DPS players is if they maintain a KDR of like 1:3, which is pretty awful because it basically means they’re only getting 1 kill for every 3 deaths. If I watch the kill feed and notice they’re not getting much value out of their pick as a DPS, I’ll ask for a swap because they’re weighing us down at that point.
Anyway, considering the fact you seem to be at 1984 right now and play on PS4 (just checked your profile) and I’m closer to 3000 at the moment, maybe you need to calm down and relax with the “stay gold bro” attitude. You should also probably check someone’s profile first before you try to **** talk them. Just a thought.
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just stop it doesnt exist. i have smurfs on my list who play nothing but tanks/mercy/support who climb from silver-masters over and over and over and over again. Literally my friend has 4+ accounts and he got them all frmo silver-dia in just a few days ONLY playing mercy and his main 4300.
So lets say a few days are 7, that’s a week, in my opinion even more than a few days. Lets say you play 10 matches a day. Not unreasonable if you have that time. I usually have this much time only at weekends. Silver ends at 2000 and Diamond starts at 3000. So 1000 points in 70 games, based on my very generous assumptions. +14SR average per match is doable, but for sure hard as hell. I want to see an Overbuff (or other Stat-Tracker) profile, where such a rise is documented.
Odd, i have multiple accounts across different tiers, gold, plat and diamond, with over 1k SR difference. Makes sense? lol
https://www.overbuff.com/players/pc/AgiftForYou-11350?mode=competitive
It’s doable.
Friend gave me this acc - ive done +500SR ( I think it’s actually closer to 600 but overbuff doesnt go back further. ) in about 37 games, mainly playing heroes ive never played in comp.