yes, and it also is causing a problem where there is no good dps answer to all the Genjis running rampant.
Junkās skill floor is low. His ceiling is one of the highest. But hey, you found a random website with 25 peopleās random opinions on it. You watch streamers in GM games, I play in them.
Most junk one tricks, for example, could pick up soldier and stay in GM. Pretty much no hitscan one tricks could pick up something like junk (or sym) and hold their own in GM games. Why do you think that is?
Look, Iām a tank main. I have to deal with dps players with room temperature IQs and massive egos all the time, and thatās OK. Out of all types of dps players though, hitscan have the biggest egos, and most of the time their egos are bigger than their ability. They just canāt admit thereās skill to this game more complicated than mechanical aim, so any time non-hitscan become meta, they say itās āluck, not skillā
7 Likes
You linked a video to Samito, the most washed up has-been in Overwatch history.
Anyone who thinks 2016 OW was more balanced needs to take off the rose-tinted glasses.
Except your only proof that supports are overpowered is based on 2016 Overwatch, an entirely different environment. Back when players were still figuring out the game.
Thatās all roles. Every role always has the winners and losers every patch.
Iām just so glad Lucio finally gets the chance to be the winner.
Yea that is the only proof goldy boiā¦ not the 7 seasons of OW2.
You keep trying to rank shame like rank somehow validates your opinions when it doesnāt. Rank is largely meaningless and only exists to prove youāre good at the game, nothing more. Anyone can get to GM if they put in the time and effort.
For 7 seasons, Support, as a role, hasnāt been OP. We had a brief window where Illari was OP, but then she was gutted. The abilities that have been consistently OP are Anti, Suzu, Immortality Field, and Discord.
This doesnāt make the entire support role OP. But supposed GM players love malding about how they tried to duel someone getting healed as if that isnāt a 2v1, and how it isnāt fair.
Then thereās the malding about the support passive, which only really kicked in if you were missing your shots. The whole thing about it meaning that supports could just not use their CDs really only applied if the other support wasnāt healing.
The āSupports are OPā rhetoric really only applied to a few of the supports, rather than the entire role. As usual, content creators exaggerated for the drama and people believed them.
Yea, sure buddy, you got this information from where ? Out of your a?
Prolikechro and PVP, junk gm/t500 OTPs back in the day, i have seen them play, one plays with absurd dpi/sens with which you are not gonna have any consistent aiming at all, aka he was total garbage with anything except junk. 5k dpi and 14.5 sens, just tell me this dude is sane and can aim well with anything except junk XD
And PVPā¦ eh, mid aim nothing you would be amazed of compared to actual top hitscan players.
And āstayā in gm is like the literal plague that has infested matchmaking, there are so many players with 50% that are āstayingā in gm and playing like total garbage.
Thank god with the new system you lose more than win at gm+ games.
DPS have highest egos ? I guess you never see it, because you are the non ego tank playing the āhardestā role and missing on how many Rein/doom/ball OTPs there are spawn feeding on cooldown.
Yet again, you are spitting stuff with no backbone to it. Meanwhile i have actual facts proving you wrong on so many levels.
Rank plays huge role into your understanding and perception of the game. if you DONT put in time to play the game and go on saying things that donāt align with reality, people will call you out. Low rank people donāt understand how to use abilities to their full potential.
At higher ranks people will play what is OP, so you saying supports are not op, is just absurd, yea of course pre s9 changes borderline nobody played zen so what nowā¦ supports are not OP because one character is garbage yet everyone is playing top tier supports ? Do you not see the issue with this take ?
Tell me it is healthy for the game that healer instead of healing goes to flank, 2 taps anyone except tank and tps out like it is nothing ? Good player wonāt lose a duel when he can 2 tap most of the roster while you canāt do the same. There is no risk involed in this strategy either, you can become immune and you can tp out and you can climb and your weapons has hitbox of a tree ???
And this can be done the same with more than 1 support character, to lesser extent than kiriko of course but baps 3x healthbarsā¦ or illiaris pylon perma healingā¦
Meanwhile zenā¦ has huge risk to repeat the same, that is what you call balanced hero. High dmg / low mobility, thereās literally like 1 korean pro who was able to find some magical opening, getting kill in backline and somehow coming out like it is nothing.
Yes, rank indeed plays a huge role into your understanding and perception of the game, but it doesnāt make your opinion any more valid than anotherās when talking about the game in the broader sense rather than the individual experience of a particular rank.
Someone being Top 500 makes them good at the game, but it doesnāt make them an authority on the game.
Which has nothing to do with rank.
Nobody knows how to use abilities to their āfull potentialā. Not even top 500s. Not that that has anything to do with rank. Being intimately familiar with a characterās kit and what you can and canāt get away with has zero to do with rank, and everything to do with understanding your chosen hero(es).
It isnāt absurd, though? What I said was that Support, as a role, is not OP. Thatās not to say that Ana, Bap, Kiriko arenāt OP. Brig is a niche pick, used to protect Ana or Zen from a dive by making them harder to kill.
First, your perception is wrong on that one. Support =/= Healer. The role is called Support for a reason. Healing is not all supports do, and if thatās what you want supports to be then you will never be happy.
Second, did I say that a support flanking and 2-tapping is healthy for the game? No. Iāve been advocating for nerfs to Bap, Ana, and Kiriko for awhile now, as well as reworks to Discord and Mercyās damage amp. I donāt think that Discord and Damage Amp are healthy for 5v5. I also donāt think immortalities are healthy for 5v5.
I donāt see Mercy, Brig or Moira two-tapping anyone, so why should we paint the entire role with the same brush?
As for Illariās pylon, it should be on a timer, to encourage strategic use instead of set and forget.
Brig and Moira are also balanced.
You donāt need to be GM to see that the support role isnāt OP.
When half the roster from a role is OP, literally based on your own words, then i think it is more than expectable that people will call the role OP. How can you not see it ?
Keep coping with something streamer has said and now everyone went a on a bandwagon to advocate that support is not a healer.
You canāt be having the same damage on a support as DPS role and then tell me, we are not healers, we are supports, we supporting by killingā¦ sorry what ? What is the purpose of DPS role then ?
Supports should have exactly that role, supporting TEAM, enabling your team, giving utility, not wiping enemy and telling that is their support.
Same as tanks should be making/juggling with space, controlling areas instead of standing still and doing dps farming simulator with infinite self heal.
This was OW1 pre whoever got in the lead and started making horrendous choices on design, now it is complete mashed potatoes of tanks and supports doing everything better than DPS and making role irrelevant, hence the goats meta and need for role lock.
By that logic we should balance around what ? Bronze players because they were able to read what ability does and be done with it ? They are good, they just didnāt put enough time into the game to get t500.
You canāt be telling me you know how to make millions but have 5$ in your wallet, you just didnāt put time into it. Reality is different. T500 WILL know how the game works better and where the issues are at much better level, which literally means that RANK DOES matter. (of course bias control is needed but that is not the topic here)
You can write 10 more quotes on a sentence that rank doesnāt matter because you said soā¦ and it is not gonna make it more valid.
Mei literally has a smaller hitbox than Tracer. Sheās one of the smallest DPS.
Lets not forget there was a popular forumnpost in late ow1 of how a talented cass player got to high mastersā¦ While not knowing what high ground is. Just clicking heads on fotm hitscan because he had some talent in aiming
Hitscan players like Metro thebpopular streamer always havenoperated at mich lower gamesense than other players in their rank
Echo, Torb, Hanzo, Sojourn, Mei.
Itās not exactly uncommon for projectile heroes to be strong. Theyāre not the victims yāall make them out to be.
Echo is overrated and niche as she is mostly played by specialists.
Mei and torb being good are a novelty and in the grand scheme of the game have not been that good.
Sojourn and hanzo have always been the honorary hitscans. Hell sojourn is hitscsn when it comes to her main source of damage
Itās a sweeping generalization that paints all heroes within the role as OP, when it simply isnāt true. Something you want to avoid if you want to be taken seriously is making sweeping generalizations.
How can you not see it?
Coping? Supports literally arenāt healers. They donāt exist just to heal. They exist to support their team by way of healing, damage, and/or utility.
The purpose of the dps role is to kill stuff faster. The dps role has the least responsibility, and the most options for any given situation. This isnāt World of Warcraft.
They do, though. Youāre upset that supports can get kills, because it steps on the toes of the dps role, but you fail to understand that very few people would sign up to play a role whose only purpose is to enable the dps in a first-person hero shooter.
What you want is for Supports to be Healers, Tanks to be Damage Sponges, and Dps to be Damage Dealers.
Tanks do make space. They do control areas.
What you want is for dps to be the only role that gets to make plays, but fail to understand that that just doesnāt appeal to as many people as a power fantasy in which all roles have an opportunity to shine.
DPS werenāt made irrelevant by GOATS. GOATS came about because the team didnāt have a Widow player. It also wasnāt the dominant meta outside GM. Low ranks preferred to play Bunker comps.
Role Queue and Role Lock were always inevitable, regardless of GOATS. Tank stacking was a thing prior to GOATS, and DPS stacking was also a thing. It wasnāt all that uncommon to see compositions comprised almost entirely of dps with no tanks. You still see this in OQ sometimes.
What you said was that low ranks donāt know how to utilize an ability to its fullest potential, which implies that abilities are so complex that only a Top 500 player could ever hope to achieve a semblance of mastery over those abilities. Which, as we all know, just isnāt true.
There are right times and wrong times to use an ability, but that has nothing to do with an abilityās potential. What you mightāve meant is a heroās potential, which is skill ceiling. But thatās an entirely different matter.
No, we shouldnāt balance the game around Bronze. We shouldnāt, however, look at GM/Top 500 as this special plataeu that only the most elite could ever possibly reach.
Anyone can reach GM. Thatās not to say everyone will, but that everyone has the potential and opportunity to reach GM with enough time and effort.
Not the same argument at all. Very poor analogy. You have to have the qualifications to get a job that allows you to make millions to begin with, which means you have to have had options in your teen years. Those options are gatekept by the cost of higher education, and opportunities.
Overwatch is a videogame. You put in enough time and effort, youāll reach GM. Everyone is afforded the same opportunity.
Not necessarily, no. Top 500 will know how the game is supposed to be played, and theyāll be able to observe the issues present at their rank, but that doesnāt suddenly make them the foremost experts on game design and balance. Rank means youāre good at the game, and have acquired the necessary skills and knowledge to consistently play at high elo, but it doesnāt mean your opinions are any more valid than anyone elseās when talking about the broader state of the game.
Rank quite literally does not matter. You denying it doesnāt make it any less true. Anyone can have an opinion, and that opinion is as valid as anyone elseās. You donāt need to be Top 500 to see what the broader issues with the game are.
No, sheās not lmao
Echo is one of the strongest DPS in the game, and itās been that way since OW2 released. Her design makes it impossible for her to be bad, and her burst damage+mobility allows skill to scale nearly infinitely with reward. Echo is the closest DPS to Tracer.
Mei has been VERY good for the majority of OW2 because every Tank has to play around her kit. Torb is always a safe pick because he does a lot of damage with a lot of sustain, and to top it off heās one of the easiest heroes in the game. Torb is never actually bad.
Ranulf said this too, butā¦no. Thatās you being disingenuous because they disprove your points. Theyāre both projectile heroes. By the way, every top tier DPS has at least one projectile element to their kit. And itās been this way for a while.
Some DPS are left to be trash, but this isnāt even exclusive to projectiles.
Sym and Mei are niche, theyāre bad most of the time but absurdly good when they are.
If the game gets to a point that niche heroes are meta, the game is doing terrible.
1 Like
- Please describe railguns projectile speed below. Because im oretty sure its a hitscan. Primary fire isnt her mainnsource of damage. Its rail. Shes hitscan.
Hanzo has by far and large the fastest projectile in the gameā¦ Ofc its fair to say he is ahinirary hitscan. But then again compared to thebprivileged hitscans like Ashe who has never been less than A tier he is still way more volatile in the meta
- Mei has been half and half. She was very bad for half of ow2. Before ow2 she was just bad.
Yeah torb is solid for the first time for a bit. It is not the norm. Exfeptions prove the rule.
Echo has very little pickrate and prolific echo players say she is not good rn.
Primary fire is projectile. Railgun is her main source of damage, but Sojourn spends most of the game as a projectile hero.
It doesnāt matter, as it still has travel time. He is a projectile hero, no matter how you spin it.
This isnāt even remotely true. Ashe is only actually good in Poke comps, and OW2 has been primarily Dive. Hanzo works much better as an assassin than most hitscans, so heās consistently been better than all but the top ones.
The early half, yes. But Mei has been consistently A-S tier for what, four seasons now? In a row. Not even Tracer has done that in OW2 yet, as she fell out of the meta twice, once for an entire season.
And what is the norm? What projectile heros do you think are consistently neglected? Iāll give you Sym, but you need more examples.
Because sheās as hard as Tracer is and fills the same niche as her while having more counterplay. Thereās not really a reason to pick Echo over Tracer. And thereās also no way to change that because of the way both heroes are designed.
Source?
1 Like
āI watched a few streamers while sitting in diamondā arenāt facts.
1 Like