Don't blame the Mercy Mains Flooding the forums

[Quest-11845]

Well, that happens when the hero becomes the most OP hero ever in Overwatch for the longest duration ever, while simultaneously becoming one of the least engaging heroes in Overwatch.

Symmetra’s rework wasn’t great. Her pickrates are still miserable. But her rework didn’t go nearly as badly as Mercy’s. It didn’t cause anywhere near as much damage, and it didn’t affect anywhere as many players as Mercy’s.

Yeah because no one played her and no one continues to play her. In the sense of opening a hero up to viability, Sym’s reworks (2 of them btw) were utter failures on a level Mercy has never even experienced. What does it matter how many people play a given hero? We’re not talking about that. We’re talking about kit design and balance.

Your bias here is pretty impressive. If you cared about and SO MUCH of your game experience DEPENDED on Sym’s auto lock DPS, her rework changed her hero to such a massive degree that you can no longer even depend on or play that hero really. There’s just not as many people that had that experience than there are vocal Mercy mains sad about losing mass rez on this forum.

I don’t think I need to say more on this, but believe me I could. Mercy is NOT the largest victim in this game regardless of how vocal forum dwelling Mercy mains want to twist it.

I don’t expect them to perfectly word them. I expect them to be direct and consistent. They have been neither of those.

Yo, you’re the one that said you wanted them to say “Mercy will not be reverted” and seem to be incapable of realizing that “I’d like to put the notion that Mercy will be reverted to rest” is pretty much EXACTLY THAT given the context.

*With modifications, and the addition of an E ability. That’s the key here.

Yeah, that’s the key here now. However many months and nerfs after the fact.

If you start with the template of a previous version, and then rework that version, it isn’t a revert; it’s a rework.

Kewl. It’s still bringing back the version that was DELIBERATELY MOVED AWAY FROM MONTHS AGO.

[Naoto-11201]

Out of curiosity, are you going to address my thoughts about Mercy and how Rez impacts her balan

That’s another point too, the ability is too strong to be on cool down. It was strong as an ult and if they don’t want to put it back as her ult then they should just get ride of it and give her something new.

She’s still going to be a strong pick because of it and most likely give her more nerfa to try and keep it balanced or something like that.

[RDK-11145]

Yeah, I don’t think the Ballad of Ziegler is over yet. We’ve been down this road before. Her pickrate and winrate fall precipitously until people realize how to play around a nominally less powerful Mercy, and she emerges just as much of a must pick as ever.

But again, I’ve played minimal amounts of OW since the patch. That’s just my opinion.

[TobiasAlec-11572]

As it turns out, it’s hard to link things that are only evident when you add context. Because as it turns out, before Jeff stopped talking about Mercy at all on here, all anyone really gave a damn about was Mass Rez, to the point where “revert Mercy” was synonymous with “bring Mass Rez back into her kit.”

Because “adding context” is your way of saying that it is subjective opinion and thus you have no link to give me, as it doesn’t exist, but you still want to feel like your opinion is fact so you’re going to make assumptions for the entire community? Got it.

Now, I’m sure you can put two and two together. The quotes are in this very thread, even. And if I’m wrong, well, I’ll let the state of the game speak for itself. I even gave you permission to mention me! One call out, completely free of charge! Wowee!

And I am giving you permission to mention me the moment Jeff makes the statement of “We are never Reverting Mercy back towards having Mass ress again!” Because what you’ve claimed before never existed! Wowee!

Out of curiosity, are you going to address my thoughts about Mercy and how Rez impacts her balance or are you going to continue to play pedant to distract yourself from the fact that you don’t have anything of substance to say re. Mercy and Mass Rez? Just playing with you. I know it’s the latter.

Don’t change the subject. I’m still waiting for that quote from Jeff. Your “in context” remark does not qualify as hard fact. You have so far, given me mere opinion regarding Mercy’s revert “never happening.”

[BadWidowEU-2419]

It was strong as an ult

Hunny, she was underpowered with mass Resurrect. Only after invulnerability did she become viable.

[Naoto-11201]

Yeah, then another round of nerfs. I honestly feel like they’ll keep doing it to the point that the nerfs will out weigh the power of Rez. At that point I would be interested in seeing what they do.

[Naoto-11201]

I came into the game after they gave her invulnerability so that’s all I was able to work with.

[RDK-11145]

Honestly, I hope it doesn’t come to that point. It’s what they did with Lucio before they reworked him. He felt absolutely awful to play until they kneecapped his aura range (and by extension speed boost) which gave them tons of room to buff other things about him.

The thing about E-Rez is like, I honestly don’t know where you go from here. The natural progression from here is a resource meter (which I’ve wnated for months) but the devs have shot that down…

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Even with invulnerability she was incredibly weak… Viable but weak. All it really did was pave way for a rework.

[Naoto-11201]

Honestly I don’t know why they don’t try it out. There would be more counter play and picks would be more impactful until she filled her meter to get it.

Though if they did put it on resource do you think they would make it an instant Rez? Or keep it how it is now?

[Titanium-1686]

Yeah because no one played her and no one continues to play her. In the sense of opening a hero up to viability, Sym’s reworks (2 of them btw) were utter failures on a level Mercy has never even experienced.

Symmetra’s reworks haven’t rendered the hero less engaging or more self-punishing than the previous version.

Disclaimer: I’m not trying to justify a hero being underpowered with what I am about to say.

It is better for the health of the game for a hero to be underpowered than it is for a hero to be overpowered. If a hero is underpowered, the playerbase, save for the players who main said underpowered hero, is unaffected.

Now, if a hero becomes overpowered, it affects everyone. People that don’t play said overpowered hero are often forced to play that hero, or risk a significantly greater change of defeat. One overpowered hero damages all other heroes of that same class; one underpowered hero damages only that one hero.

Yo, you’re the one that said you wanted them to say “Mercy will not be reverted” and seem to be incapable of realizing that “I’d like to put the notion that Mercy will be reverted to rest” is pretty much EXACTLY THAT given the context.

“Given the context”? The context was the planning.

Yeah, that’s the key here now. However many months and nerfs after the fact.

I assume you have not been paying attention for the past 11 months?

Kewl. It’s still bringing back the version that was DELIBERATELY MOVED AWAY FROM MONTHS AGO.

Moving back towards that template and fixing the problems there is better than trying to dance around the issue with an unworkable template for a year.

[Naoto-11201]

Do you think they should have changes it differently so it didn’t lead to the reworks? I’m interested in hearing people’s thoughts of how they should have changes Mass Rez instead of what they did.

[BadWidowEU-2419]

Damage reduction will always be my shister.

[RDK-11145]

Because “adding context” is your way of saying that it is subjective opinion and thus you have no link to give me, as it doesn’t exist, but you still want to feel like your opinion is fact so you’re going to make assumptions for the entire community? Got it.

No, adding context is just that - adding context. As I said a few posts back, you’re free to link me to people who wanted literally any other part of old (S1) Mercy, other than mass rez, to return. This would make the angle of “50 HP/s is a revert in the vein that this entire thread is centered around” actually make sense. You have failed to do so.

And I am giving you permission to mention me the moment Jeff makes the statement of “We are never Reverting Mercy back towards having Mass ress again!” Because what you’ve claimed before never existed! Wowee!

The defacto quote rings in the collective community’s ears every time the devs make a balance change that brings her further away from Mass Rez Mercy. Because that would obviously be the easy way to “solve” the problem.

As they say, actions speak louder than words. You don’t have to say anything if you actions make your intentions obvious. We know Mercy with 50 HP/s and Mass Rez doesn’t work. We passed the point where Mass Rez Mercy would be a viable hero (if you remove E and Q and supplant S1 Mass Rez) about 3 nerfs ago.

Don’t change the subject. I’m still waiting for that quote from Jeff. Your “in context” remark does not qualify as hard fact. You have so far, given me mere opinion regarding Mercy’s revert “never happening.”

And you have given me wordplay and a refusal to actually interact with my posts outside of reading “revert” and immediately jumping to quoting the dictionary, so I’d say it’s tit for tat.

[RDK-11145]

That I’m not sure about. I think it could be instant or at the very least a heavily reduced cast time.

I think the devs have said they don’t want to do it because it makes the ability too complicated? Which is a shame I think. Dynamic cooldowns are cool and rez seems like the perfect ability for it.

[Naoto-11201]

That I think would have worked, give it some counter play. Also hear other’s saying they should have given it a line of sight rework too. Make it so she can’t Rez though walls and such.

[Naoto-11201]

Idk how it would do that, put it to a set amount of healing to be done or maybe a mix of healing and damage boosting to build up the meter.

[RDK-11145]

I always had a sketch that was like… Mercy heals 50 HP/s right? I’d make 1500 healing (30 seconds worth of non ult healing) to fill the Rez meter. Damage boosting is a bit trickier because that’s variable (damage boost Bastion and damage boost Moira give you two completely different numbers) so I never really got around to balancing that. But the goal was under perfect circumstances, unless you invest ult, you get 1 rez every 30 seconds. It would be less than that, practically, because I had the meter reset every time you died.

This would also give Valkyrie a way to boost Rez. In my sketch I had the ult go down to 10 seconds in duration, because it’s possible then to build Rez in 6 seconds. The numbers can be tweaked though, and it’s not a rez given to the player for free, which is the real takeaway.

[Quest-11845]

Symmetra’s reworks haven’t rendered the hero less engaging or more self-punishing than the previous version.

There is no way you can OBJECTIVELY quantify that. That is your flaw in all of this. You have a preestablished conclusion and you argue in faith to it regardless of what happens. You then utilize other people’s experiences, interpretations, and such to bolster how compelling your rhetoric is. You only select those that are supportive of YOUR interpretation. You don’t consider how someone could interpret or intend anything other than this arbitrary standard you place on the subject matter of what you discuss.

Did I make sense there?

For someone that suffers with a physical disability and cannot aim, the loss of Syms auto aim on their primary is a HUGE difference of the likes no able bodied Mercy main has ever experienced. You are placing such high value on how the change to Mercy effected you and those sympathetic to your cause, while actively devaluing how changes to other heroes can have an immense personal impact, or how other people feel about the hero you play. Some people hated Mass Rez fundamentally. They’re as valid as you. That person, with their physical disabilities, being unable to participate in a DPS role in a game they enjoy etc etc, is FAR MORE MEANINGFUL to me than your QQing over the change in an ult.

Do you understand?

Now, if a hero becomes overpowered, it affects everyone.

Oh yes. I know. I have not been a fan of the Reign of the Moth. I don’t agree with OH SO MANY THINGS Blizzard does, but I DO NOT APPRECIATE the accuracy of understanding the situation being compromised by a vocal minorities ABSURDLY biased demands.

This game is about accessibility, Mercy is a hero that optimizes that. It wants to reach a large and diverse player base, and try to make sure everyone is as equally accommodated to as possible. That’s why I put Syms rework on a level this Mercy nonsense could NEVER even appreciate when it comes to severity and meaningfulness. That’s why this Mercy noise annoys me oh so much.

If we are going to appreciate any individual, or vocal minorities, feelings and thoughts, we have to appreciate them all. That includes those who hated playing against mass rez, the ones that didn’t like it as a mechanic at all.

“Given the context”? The context was the planning.

Please do not mess with me right now. It was clear what he was referring to when he made that 1 sentence, in it’s own paragraph, when he made that response. Again, you are putting your standard, your assumption of the reality, over everyone else’s. It was #RevertMercy afterall. Not #ReworkMercy. It wasn’t anything that had to do about anything other than Mass Rez.

I assume you have not been paying attention for the past 11 months?

I don’t think we want to get into snarky banter about who is paying attention and who is not at this point.

Moving back towards that template and fixing the problems there is better than trying to dance around the issue with an unworkable template for a year.

No. Not if you are dedicated as moving away from that template fundamental. Mass Rez had fundamental game design flaws that can’t be addressed outside of going from 1 button press = 1-5 rezzed to 1 button press = 1 person rezzed. That was the point of the rework, going from 1:1-5 -> 1:1. Not balance. Not fun.

[TobiasAlec-11572]

No, adding context is just that - adding context. As I said a few posts back, you’re free to link me to people who wanted literally any other part of old (S1) Mercy, other than mass rez, to return. This would make the angle of “50 HP/s is a revert in the vein that this entire thread is centered around” actually make sense. You have failed to do so.

I already told you that they are subjective opinion. No link is required. Not every Mercy main in this community believes in the same thing. So assuming so makes no sense. Because I don’t try to make things about the wants and needs about everyone in a particular group.

Also. I’ve never claimed such a thing to begin with, you are tying to put words in my mouth that never existed.

The defacto quote rings in the collective community’s ears every time the devs make a balance change that brings her further away from Mass Rez Mercy. Because that would obviously be the easy way to “solve” the problem.

As they say, actions speak louder than words. You don’t have to say anything if you actions make your intentions obvious. We know Mercy with 50 HP/s and Mass Rez doesn’t work. We passed the point where Mass Rez Mercy would be a viable hero (if you remove E and Q and supplant S1 Mass Rez) about 3 nerfs ago.

I need the link that proves that you’re not just lying RDK. Do you have the link. Yes or no?

And you have given me wordplay and a refusal to actually interact with my posts outside of reading “revert” and immediately jumping to quoting the dictionary, so I’d say it’s tit for tat.

Once again, you are beating around the bush. Do you have ANY evidence that backs up your claim that Jeff was specifically referring to Mercy’s resurrection when he said that they are “putting the notion that Mercy is getting a revert to rest”? Otherwise, I will assume that you have done nothing but given me subjective opinion, and that you agree that you know absolutely nothing about what you’re talking about when you made the claim that the devs said that “mass res will never come back”?

I am literally calling you out so you can back up your claim and prove that you are a mature individual who doesn’t make things up to fit their agenda of thinking that Jeff does not want mass res to return. Are you going to give me that proof or not?