Isn’t that the case? She absolutely forces hitscan, her ability to peek spam is far worse than Hanzo or Junkrat owing to her ability to position herself behind a building you can’t get behind permanently, so that nothing short of a one-shot will ever kill her. Widowmaker is just a long-range hitscan, there’s nothing so unique about her. I would say Pharah needs a complete rework or at the very least some way of invalidating Pharmercy nonsense, but judging by the terrible Mei and Cass changes they aren’t capable of good changes.
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Well I have about 300 hours in Pharah.
And I’d be fine with changing both Widow and Pharah to make them less frustrating to play against.
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The game was designed to counter pick and force player on or off certain heroes … going away from that concept was one of their main mistakes.
I mean both do belong in this game at the same level.
Widow is a sniper on an FPS
Pharah is a rocket launcher hero on an Arena/Objective Based game
Nothing weird imho.
She has one shot capability on that readily available, long-range hitscan attack. That’s pretty unique. It also can make games of OW feel more like CS, but if I wanted that, I’d go back to CS.
I don’t care whether Pharmercy gets nerfed or not, but rocket launcher lady feels much more in line with the Doom, Quake type of vibe OW is going for.
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They both present different design problems relating to interactivity. Pharah exists in a space where many heroes can’t threaten her, whereas Widowmaker exists in a space where she can kill almost anyone before they can interact with her.
Both of them are contentious characters in a game largely designed for close-medium range skirmishes on the ground.
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I have hundreds of hours playing Pharah and there are a multitude of characters to counter her, so no, she doesn’t need to be removed. She requires skill to play, and not everyone playing her gets Pharmercy. I know where heal packs are because 99% of the time, I don’t get healed because the supports aren’t looking up to throw heals to me, they’re focusing on the tank or the DPS on the ground.
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It’s almost like the issue here isn’t Pharah… Every single thread about her ends up mentioning Mercy too. You guys want a solution to this Pharmercy nonsense? Tackle the source of the problem.
How long until we admit Mercy’s design has been nothing but detrimental to the game’s health since 2016? How long until we realize the blue beam has to go?
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Widow’s problem is that she’s a lone wolf in a team-based game. Wallhack is literally her only team utility, a few seconds on an ultimate. And anyway she gets the most value out of it. The rest of her kit:
- Primary? You have to be far away from the point to make use of it. Contesting point = 0, in an objective based game.
- Secondary? Just a “better than nothing” if pressured in melee range, the less you use it the better.
- Hook? Some mobility, just for her.
- Venom mine? An alert if flanked, just for her.
- Synergies? Essentially the same of every hero with primary fire much more important than abilities. So Mercy for damage boost (meh, if you’re clicking heads just fine you don’t need her), Zen for discord, etc. etc. Nothing unique to her.
Her gameplay is “just clicking heads” and not so much more. Point and click adventure. I know a lot of people love it, not here to judge, fact is… Everyone else works with the team much more than her. Even other snipers, and thinking about it Ashe seems just a “sniper adjusted for a team based game”, while Widows is “a generic sniper here just because people love snipers”.
Pharah obviously isn’t 100% a team player, but she works with her team waaaaay more. Even outside Pharmacy: her ultimate gets the most value if used in combo, concussive blast can help allies by displacing key enemy players, her movements in the sky can take away pressure from the frontline. Like Widow she hasn’t a lot of contesting power, but if you need to gain a few seconds a grounded Pharah is slightly better than a melee Widowmaker.
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The source of the problem here is clearly Pharah. Removing Mercy from the equation doesn’t make it a fair fight for projectile heroes or tanks, it just increases her hitscan vulnerability.
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I would argue that flyers by themselves aren’t as oppressive when paired with mercy , mercy is and will always be an issue , she is the problem and she needs to be reworked first , not hog or sombra
Posting this again:
Heroes that hard counter Pharah:
Torb (you could maybe put him in soft counter instead, but turret does a ton to pressure a lone Pharah and shuts down flanking routes. It does a significant chunk of her health even from far away before you can get off two rockets and their travel time)
Soldier
Sombra
Ashe
Echo
Widow
Cassidy
Baptiste
Ana
D.Va
Bastion
Sojourn if you can aim
There are softer counters, too:
Winston (his bubble does a lot to shut down her damage)
Sigma (Rock is easy to land on Pharah, his succ absorbs her ulti, his shield blocks flanking routes)
Zen (discord makes Pharah easy to melt)
Pharah has PLENTY of hard counters, arguably the most hard countered hero in the game.
Pharmercy is what’s more difficult to counter, and even then it’s pretty trivial with hitscan who can aim. She’s slow, her hitbox is huge, she only 200hp with no armor or shields, and her movement is incredibly predictable when she’s hovering.
Even an Ana with decent aim can kill Pharah through Mercy healing in 3-4 shots. Echo can sticky grenades and death beam Pharah through Mercy healing. Widow, Ashe, Soldier, and Cass can also easily kill her through a Mercy pocket. D.Va can fly and rocket/primary Pharah down through Mercy pocket.
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