(for clarification, i’m not suggesting we remove things from her kit, and something more align with what d.va got with missiles)
Like now that she can’t cleanse hard knockdowns, and the fact she can no longer two tap. The use case for her kit is kind slim outside of being a healing (or nade cleanse) bot .
Especially with moria more or less already doing that, and is more consistently peeling and or killing flankers and the like.
It might be a good time to think about retooling her kit, to give her something else to play around.
Like the old boomerang concept art might still be a good fit. As like it could give her more offensive ways to use TP. By doing her little flank, throw the big shuriken rang. Wait for it to start returning to her, then TP back to her team were the rang takes another trip through the enemy team back to her.
This is simply not the case. It is still far more valuable to go for headshots when tp to someone for support. I’d argue that she is a very bad healbot hero.
Kiri still has her get out of jail free card, when she attemts to go for flanks. Also i think Kiri can 1v1 Moira np.
As a long term Kiri main, i am absolutely opposed to giving her her two tap, as her kit is still crazy good, and easily makes her s tier hero (21 months in a row now).
Maybe remove invulnerabily out of her suzu, and bring back the boop, as knockdown stun cleanse. Decrease her tp range, in exchange decrease its cooldown. Kiri would be forced to play closer to the team, but her hypermobility potential would increase.
I feel like as a SUPPORT hero, her TP should absolutely not have any offensive capabilities.
Personally, i think Kiriko is fine how she is. SHe is still crazy good, with overbloated kit, and dope gameplay style. Her dps, best duelist in the game potential was gutted, but she still remains to be one of the best and most fun support heroes to play.
Meh I’m going off like high teir playstyles at the moment. And the fact her pick rate dropped quite a bit after the hard knockdown nerf. Like really middle of the pack in even the highest tiers.
Ya heads shots are big damage, but it’s also inconsistent. And the heroes that are easy to head shot can kill you a lot faster then them.
So a lot of people are kind of just hanging back doing their best not to die, which is really boring. Even in the tips and tops of play.
A lot of supports have that be it nade/sleep/Healing wave/lamp. Moira orb + primary fire be doing a darn good job at that to. Especially if nade is also in play.
Moria also has a get a jail free card, both in her own TP and orb. Plus one needs to be supper accurate, the other doesn’t.
She is currently in the last month played as much as lucio at the moment in GM. And the difference in pickrate between her and mercy at that rank is 8%ish. which is huge. As long as nothing has changed in the last day or so.
this is weird my dude. Like most supports have offensive tools on cooldowns.
Anti-nade, discord, damage boost, whipshot, damage orb, Illari as a whole.
They are made kill things my guy.
Plus that kiri’s were using TP to flank kill things in close range, and escape from such. And honestly, it’s the same story for what I recommended.
She is currently fine and does not need anything. Neither buffs nor nerfs. You can rework suzu as soon as you rework Ana, because Kirikos main purpose is to counter the old hag, because they refuse to rework her.
And the low mobility, low hp, hero that has to burn her big team tool to live a bit longer. Is kind of easy to remove from a fight in a lot cases. Doubly so with flankers.
Also like… Kiriko literally just being a tool to cleanse what maybe two characters are doing isn’t the best reason for her existence. And characters are generally more multi-purpose then that.
The things that gave her an identity made her broken beyond belief in higher elo play
I peaked GM playing exclusively Kiri and Bap on support and Kiri a couple of seasons ago was busted
Thankfully global health changes arrived and she lost her 2 tap. I honestly think suzu should still cleanse hard knockdown stuns, just reduce the i-frame window, that’s all. All it did was cater to Rein mains who don’t know how to track CD’s
I’m happy her flank-2-tap-if-you-miss-just-tp-out playstyle is gone that was so horrible to play into. She was such a free value hero
We could talk about little details, like her damage or exactly what (out of everything) her Suzu should do, but her playstyle is fun and viable, and would remain so regardless of whether she provides invulnerability or not. It’s why she’s so popular.
So rien is a special case, because for him to get a big play everyone had to be grouped up in a small area. While say a JQ can ram through four different people at variable distance, including say that ana hiding in the back line.
so it for that reason kind was almost always going to have make impact against a shatter.
So I get the change their. Especially with a character can do so quickly right after spawning in a quite a few cases. So it’s a little more then just Cooldown tracking.
You are either messing with me or you are utterly clueless. We are currently even having a tank passive mainly because of Ana (debuff duration reduction) and she with Zen and Sombra are the main reason why tanks feel trashy to play if not broken AF.
Ana has been an issue since day 1 of OW2. Her debuffs are too strong against one tank and the “but no mobility!” excuse does not cut it when she can duel flankers pretty cosistently. Sleep is a death sentence for them and anti is a health burst and a damage tool also.
Ana is busted and Kiriko is the main counter to her. Without Ana, we would not need suzu.
Or you know I recognize a characters weak points, and just use like widow, tracer, pharah, d.va, winston, moria, kiriko, venture and more. To target her quickly and early in the fight.
And just bully hero out of the game.
Also Mei two-taps with a head shot+body shot. soooooo. that nade coming out fast if you establish you can hit that at range on her slow scoped movement speed.
Honestly i’am fine with that. To me, she only got harder to play. Many players liked to abused her overbloated kit with her damage potential.
It is inconsistent sure. But so are all projectiles in the game. Are you suggesting that every projectile that is hard to land should have been compensated at some point?
But sure, ill take hanzo’s one shot back anytime.
So they no longer can keep flanking, and spamming off angles, with a hypermobile, jail out for free card gifted, best ulted hero (SUPPORT) in the game anymore, and must wait for the proper momentum first? I feel like that was intended, don’t know why.
Im sorry, i’m confused. Did you just compare a insta transportation through walls (at 35 meters), to any of these?
You are comparing autolock cooldown with manual execution. Also it doesnt matter that she manages to escape, winning a duel doesnt necessarily have to mean kill someone.
I will only repeat myself here. Her low pick rate doesnt make her A tier hero.
One of main reasons why her pickrate went down, is because Phara’s went up.
Yes, but not most supports have invulnerability, wall climb + insta tp to ally at 35 meters (aka insane hypermobility), small hitbox, big projectile, good headshot crit damage, and best ult in the game.
But if we can give all those to the rest of the support cast, then i will agree that there should be no distinction or variability in support kits, and SUZU should instakill for 250 damage.
Sounds to me, like you want to take the term ‘‘hypermobility’’ to a whole new level tbh.
I’d argue this isnt true, because projectile heroes either have positional tools and wall hacks to give them more ways and room to line that up in ranges they like to play in.
Or in mei’s case you have heroes like ashe/widow/ana, and many tanks that will slow themselves down making head shots with the projectile very easy to hit and do like 170 base damage (not counting tank reduction)
like the only character that really can’t consistently land stuff is Junkrat, because of how slow his nades are.
The problem with Kiri is that she doesn’t have control over were TP will take her inmost cases, just to a teammate. so it’s not something she can consistently use to set her self up.
Like meh that’s not a lot. Especially considering most of it is in the suzu, that only can be used once a dozen secounds or so. Which means large parts of her play time is just move and shoot.
Genji, hanzo, lucio, mercy, and more have more complex kits then her for the most part.
The kicker is she can only TP to her team. So like if there dead or directly infront of her. It’s not going to do much.
It’s the old mercy 1.0 issue where you need you team to set up to actually get use of it. Can have a higher payout. But… it’s not consistent.
A while back I recommended being able to set a custom TP spot for offensive or more consistent escape plays. With a charge up time to set it up for balancing it out.
I’m comparing how the two kill things.
it doesn’t how it’s done, just that one is currently more consistently effective then the other.
She took your attention away from your team, while her heal orb or ult is actively doing healing while attacking you.
You may have won the battle, but I won war sort of a deal.
It kind of does, the main reason why a lot of people played is gone.
so like… She doesn’t really have that standing any more. Because quick HP resets are a dime a dozen.
Mercy exists yes. bapt has better version of wall climb that can get to more locations that don’t have walls to get to. And or overhangs to block such.
This is actually nerf, because like most supports can do the same or more crit dps then her. But her body shot damage is nerfed because of it.
Her doing it two big burst of damage “WAS” a big deal do break points. But post health changes it doesn’t really matter.
Oh no the counter pick game has ways to play around the old laddy. "no no that’s not true he must be dumb. "
Oh I miss this bit.
But like, I’m not suggesting that she do anything she can’t already do. Even with the Boomerang it would still be the same TP she has now.
The version I proposed would be a power shift. As she actively needs to set her TP points before being able to use TP. So she has more options in how she wants to use it. But can’t just use it right away creating more down time before if not making it more predictable to play around.
I mean I hope the only thing arguing here are living people.
My guy you post several times in every thread I make. like Half of your 300 posts are are from interacting with my content. And telling people not to engage with me.
As a counter argument i’d say, kiriko’s Kitsune increases your movement speed and fire rate, increasing your chance to land that hit. While its not much of a positional leverage it is an offensive one. And sure, its within ult, but we are talking about SUPPORT hero here. Her damage should’ve always been only supportive (imho).
All three have range superiority over Mei. A good Widow will kill good Mei, even if both hit the head, only one will die.
Ashe shifts between scope and rapid fire. When she is unscoped, her mobility is normal, and she is harder to hit with projectile, and medium to long range at least.
Most Anna’s quick scope, means they are not nonstop scoped. When unscoped, its the same case as with Ashe.
This is result of Mei’s gimmick. I mean when she slows down a tank, Kiriko is much more consistent at landing her headshot on him/her too.
Agreed, but Junkrat can be considered a hypermobile hero. You can do pretty cool shenanigans with that, from what i’ve seen.
Because she really shouldnt be able to use it on herself. She is a SUPPORT. She needs to have situational awareness, as she needs to be close to her teammate(s). It is perfect disadvantage to have on already strong ability, on 8s cooldown.
I mean, you can boringly simplify context of any hero this way.
Reinhardt
‘‘Just hold shield, smash smash, shield, strike, shield, smash, wait for ult, ult, shield, smash’’
Sombra
‘‘Throw tp, go invis, go behind, hack, shoot, throw tp, go invis, repeat’’
Baptiste
‘‘Shoot lmb, shoot rmb, holdctr, press shift, no enough then E, high ground, screw your team, amp matrix yourself’’
Her Suzu is part of her kit, like Mei’s is wall. Its not like each hero have plentiful of super diverse abilities to use. One can argue some are more fun than the others, but fun is at the end subjective. Suzu effectivness is directly proportionate, to its need of not overusing it against heroes that gain the most out of baiting it out. Many times, you have to hold it, or risk Junker Queen in the face after trying to save dying tank.
Genji sure. Genji is arguably one of the hardest heroes to master.
Hanzo is about learning angles, and using walls. I’m not sure about that one.
Lucio’s kit is crazy simple, you shift between speed and healing, mostly end up spamming shift, and the pressing E when you want to heal more. His movement is what makes him hard to play. If you consider wallsliding as part of his kit, then sure, Lucio is more complex.
I am pretty sure you are trolling about Mercy. Mercy is very good begginer hero with oversimplified movement, and cooldowns. She is very easy to play, if the one playing her knows basics of the game.
No way… One of the best cooldowns in the game actually have a con? I don’t believe this /s
So you want one of the best cooldowns in the game, to be actually the best cooldown in the game, promoting solo playstyle of a SUPPORT hero. I mean, i would support the idea, its overall sounds great. If she was a DPS hero…
We are talking about 1v1. You are occupied with her, she is occupied with you. Only thing is, Kiri has higher chance of winning the duel forcing her to fall back, while clearing the flank. As Kiri, you certainly have more time to close to her and land those headshots. If you don’t, that is a skill issue really.
I mean yeah. Pretty much.
Unless they stopped playing her because she is harder to play than she was before, and you can’t no longer just healbot backlines, but actually be agressive with your dps and try to land those headshots.
I’d argue that she still pretty much does. You just can’t commit alone anymore. That is why i love using her in dive compositions.
I’d argue that Hypermobility is Mercy’s only gimmick. But her hypermobility is top level, because unlike Swift Step, Guardian Angel is at 1,5 seconds. Her ult is also top notch hypermobility, plus her E is crazy strong in many situations, although arguably, her E is very situational.
I’d argue that baps jump is not better wallclimb, although is much less buggier. He still needs to charge it, he is pretty vulnerable when airborne. The way it works also disables you from shifting between crouching and jumping, when trying to evade hitscan headshots. Plus, again. Bap has much bigger hitbox.
I never said it wasn’t. But her burst damage potential is still there.
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