Dispelling a myth - Mercy 1.0

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

First off most people know Mercy’s don’t hide EVERY time but she needs to play very passively because you needed to make sure you didn’t die with res which sometimes included hiding. In the video she showed some of the clips actually showed the Mercy hiding or ducking around cover to avoid damage and swooping in for the res. This is why they changed it, they didn’t like the playstyle coming from it.

All heroes have the ability to play passively. Mercy is not the only hero. Also, regarding “Hide n Res”, the only reason it was or seemed to be used on a large scale was because of a broken SR system that incentivized hiding over staying with your team and healing. Tempo rezzing and staying with your team is always going to better and most Mercy mains knew that.

The video to me basically said res could be countered if you killed the Mercy or just win the teamfight agian. And that’s not a direct counter to res because you didn’t stop her for using it. Killing Mercy before she uses res isn’t a counter because you didn’t stop the ult, just delay it. If you kill Genji before he uses blade did you counter the blade? No, just delayed it. And if Mercy uses res but the enemy team uses their ults after to kill the enemy team agian, that’s not a counter because all they did was win the teamfight again, not counter mass res.

You’re acting as if we want Mercy back with no changes at all. if people are so concerned over Resurrect’s inability to be countered why don’t you just give Resurrect a cast time.

I never understood the “just give LoS and a small cast time and she’ll be fine” arguement. To me all I see that going is Mercy telling her team to die somewhere specifically and hiding more just so she can use it without fear of dying while using it, which is what the devs wanted to get away from. Not every Mercy player would do it because a lot of us have different ways of playing her, but I do see this becoming a somewhat common thing for Mercy players.

If she has a cast time, she can be countered so no, Mercy’s would have a fear of dying after hiding and letting her team die.

I think a better idea is to have her current res ability be a Torbjorn like scrap meter that she charges to use res. It fixes so many issues like res being earned and using tempo reses to keep the battle going in your favor.

Blizz, specifically, Geoff Goodman, said that the suggestion is too complicating to implement into the game. Don’t ask me about it. I didn’t say it. Also, Mercy’s mass ress was earned by healing. If people don’t like mass ress, I don’t really see why they like ress as a resource bar based ability.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

I’m just disproving the idea of her being overpowered because of her pickrate. Sure, there may be other things that hint at her old state being overpowered but pickrate is certainly not one of them.

True, but you’re also removing the basis for saying Invuln Mercy wouldn’t be overpowered, as well.

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

I’m talking about Mercy’s kit in general. Sure, invulnerability may been OP but that’s not what we are here to talk about.

[Kaeldorn-2546]

Mercy 1.0 was kind of broken.

In the sense that she offered nothing to her team besides healing, which Ana could do just as well. And she didn’t have the survivability she has these days (thanks to Valkyrie and self-regen kicking in faster) either. She was just bad outside of Pharmercy comps…

[Ogrewatch-2831]

You could set up a dead eye, death blossom, grav, or whatever ult to wipe them just as they get out of the lock

[DPapercut-1255]

@DvaSlaysEU-2809

All heroes have the ability to play passively. Mercy is not the only hero. Also, regarding “Hide n Res”, the only reason it was or seemed to be used on a large scale was because of a broken SR system that incentivized hiding over staying with your team and healing. Tempo rezzing and staying with your team is always going to better and most Mercy mains knew that.

Mercy was the only one perhaps aside from old Symmetra that had to play VERY passively because of the obvious reason she doesn’t have a reliable way to fight back and your best option is to usually fly away and reposition. She played way to much around her ult compared to other heroes. I wouldn’t say the SR was the incentive for the hide and seek playstyle because not many players even knew it exsisted and were doing it without knowing. It came from baiting out ultimates and just undoing them all while your somewhere safe from all the crossfire. Plus when they removed it (I think a little before the summer games last year) Mercy’s were playing as they always have SR incentive or not.

@DvaSlaysEU-2809

You’re acting as if we want Mercy back with no changes at all. if people are so concerned over Resurrect’s inability to be countered why don’t you just give Resurrect a cast time.

But the changes people are asking for make her already “balanced” ultimate weaker for the sake of it being weaker.

@DvaSlaysEU-2809

If she has a cast time, she can be countered so no, Mercy’s would have a fear of dying after hiding and letting her team die.

If she has a cast time plus LoS she would probably feel awful to play because in order to res you need to be out in the open with no cover to obstruct your LoS and now you need to take into account that the cast time can get you killed before you could even use it and you don’t have the option to use cover to make it easier and more rewarding.

@DvaSlaysEU-2809

Blizz, specifically, Geoff Goodman, said that the suggestion is too complicating to implement into the game. Don’t ask me about it. I didn’t say it. Also, Mercy’s mass ress was earned by healing. If people don’t like mass ress, I don’t really see why they like ress as a resource bar based ability.

If he said that then I’ll take your word for it but their should be better ways of balancing her. EeveeA made a really good post about changes they could make to her, I don’t agree with all of them but they are definitely a step in the right direction in my opinion: Suggestions for Mercy from someone with too much time on her 📝

[fayescarlet-1614]

With Mercy, you couldn’t do #2. And with a mechanic that brings the enemy team back to life instantly without being able to stop it, it had less counterplay than any other ultimate in the game.

The counterplay is ult economy. You KNOW the enemy has a Mercy, and you KNOW she most likely has Rez charged up. And yet, your team still ran in willy nilly, blowing ults left and right, without having a back-up to out-play Mercy when she goes for the Rez?

Resurrect punished poor ult economy and poor strategy. It’s very easy to make Resurrect blow up in Mercy’s face if you’re smart enough to be two steps ahead of her.

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

@DPapercut-1255

I wouldn’t say the SR was the incentive for the hide and seek playstyle because not many players even knew it exsisted and were doing it without knowing.

People would be able to easily realize that they earn more SR depending on the number of resses they got. People are not that stupid.

@DPapercut-1255

Plus when they removed it (I think a little before the summer games last year) Mercy’s were playing as they always have SR incentive or not.

It was removed after her rework was put on live servers?

@DPapercut-1255

But the changes people are asking for make her already “balanced” ultimate weaker for the sake of it being weaker.

We already have a Mercy with a cast time. People need to try it out with mass ress before they say it makes her unplayable. It will make her weaker though.

@DPapercut-1255

If she has a cast time plus LoS she would probably feel awful to play because in order to res you need to be out in the open with no cover to obstruct your LoS and now you need to take into account that the cast time can get you killed before you could even use it and you don’t have the option to use cover to make it easier and more rewarding.

I’m pretty sure people want Mercy to have the same LoS as current Mercy except you dont have to stand right infront of the dead ally to res them. With this in mind, you can still hide behind cover.

@DPapercut-1255

If he said that then I’ll take your word for it but their should be better ways of balancing her. EeveeA made a really good post about changes they could make to her, I don’t agree with all of them but they are definitely a step in the right direction in my opinion: Suggestions for Mercy from someone with too much time on her

This is exactly what they denied the possibility of. They said that they purposefully avoid doing stuff like that.

[RobotWizard-233259]

if you think you have just used facts then I am sorry it but those 3 are not.

1. in season 4 even with her nerfs Ana was the still the most picked main support in masters and GM. whereas from bronze to diamond Ana barely stood a chance, which has to do with the aim.in season 5 it changed when ana received her damage nerfs and mercy got her rezz buff it turned 180. Whereby in masters ana’s stood no chance, mercy became nr1 support hero and even in GM mercy overtook ana quiet easily.
2. Popularity does not mean higher pickrate. Genji is the favorite dps in the game but not as much as seen throughout comp like in the dive meta as moira, and brigitte got into the game. dva has the 3rd largest or top 5 fan base in the game. However dva’s pick rate from season 4 to 7 was competitive and during 6 was still competing with roadhog or zarya as an off tank. however in season 7 that changed when she received her missiles buffs and became NR1 tank in the game.there is not always a correlation between popularity and pick rate in comp.
3. yes that is why from bronze to diamond mercy is always Nr1, even during the period of OP Ana. in season 3 ana barely outmatched ana in plat/ diamond as people’s aim is still decent.
   however the 3rd point does not explain why there is a sudden switch of meta, playing style and pick rate from season 5, at the same when mercy gets her buff.
4. she was not overpowered and no one said that about mercy from march 2017 to September 2017. the root of the problem was that the game did a 180 when she got her buff. what also did not help is that some (which later turned into many) exploited the SR and hide and rezz strategy that occurred because mercy got her buff.

[DPapercut-1255]

People would be able to easily realize that they earn more SR depending on the number of resses they got. People are not that stupid.

Even if they did realize or the SR exploit never existed to begin with, you don’t think that would be enough to stop this playstyle?

It was removed after her rework was put on live servers?

I assumed they removed it during that time because they also removed Sombra’s SR exploit during that period too, but I may be wrong I don’t have the exact timeframe.

We already have a Mercy with a cast time. People need to try it out with mass ress before they say it makes her unplayable. It will make her weaker though.

It just doesn’t make sense to me to make a “balanced” ult weaker just for the sake of it being weaker.

I’m pretty sure people want Mercy to have the same LoS as current Mercy except you dont have to stand right infront of the dead ally to res them. With this in mind, you can still hide behind cover.

So same playstyle as current Mercy but with mass res instead? I’m still not convinced but I’ll say I’m open to it. Where does they put Valkyrie?

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

The points you gave are also correct but it doesn’t suddenly disprove the points I gave. Also, it is a fact that one of the reasons why Mercy is picked a lot is because of her popularity. Pretty sure the Mercy fan-base is the biggest fan-base within Overwatch.

Even if they did realize or the SR exploit never existed, to begin with, you don’t think that would be enough to stop this playstyle?

It will definitely significantly decrease the frequency of hiding Mercy’s as tempo rezzing is way better than letting your team die then going for a huge rez.

It just doesn’t make sense to me to make a “balanced” ult weaker just for the sake of it being weaker.

In comparison to current Resurrect, it is balanced. If it was balanced we wouldn’t need to change it at all but ofc she still needs changes such as a fixed LoS and a short cast time.

So same playstyle as current Mercy but with mass res instead? I’m still not convinced but I’ll say I’m open to it. Where does they put Valkyrie?

This is just my suggestion. Make Valkyrie a 4-5 second ability that lets Mercy fly but the height is limited, the beam doesn’t split, regen is normal and the beam doesn’t increase. This will discourage Mercy players to hide and rather join the fight. It also gives players a chance at killing Mercy before she uses ult as she is in LoS with enemy now.

[kyasarintsu-1853]

I don’t think many people thought she was overpowered. It was just her resurrection that was controversial.
For me and the low-ranked matches I would get, every team had two Mercys and it was about which team got the better mass rez. It was annoying having to put so much weight on one hero to do one thing that could potentially be easily countered, especially now that we have heroes like Sombra.
Now I’m better at the game andknow how to deal with mass rez, but I guess now it’s an argument about “fun”. Was it “fun” to find Symmetra’s shield generator?

As for pick rate, yes, I know that she’s an extremely popular character. Balancing around pick rate is really stupid and the focus should be on the balance and healthiness instead.
If characters are fun, likable, and balanced, a good pick rate will come naturally. If someone is fun and balanced and still not chosen, it can just be that the character itself—mechanically or otherwise—just isn’t popular.

[SZN-11728]

Y’all love talking about a dead hero

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

She’s alive? You can infact, play her in Overwatch as we speak.

[SZN-11728]

Oh Mercy 1.0 is alive? I didn’t know that. Thanks for the information dude!

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

Mercy, the hero, is still alive. Mercy 1.0, a old iteration of Mercy, no longer exists. That doesn’t mean that version of Mercy died lol. Pretty sure the devs still have the code for Mercy 1.0.

[SZN-11728]

I know that. Sarcasm guy. The op was talking about 1.0 Mercy. She is dead. That’s who I was saying is dead.

[siennarena-1877]

That still isn’t counterplay. That is just winning a teamfight and dealing with the aftermath.

[DvaSlaysEU-2809]

Revert Mercy and give her a cast time then or is that too hard to counter as well?

[GreyFalcon-11737]

With Mercy, you couldn’t do #2. And with a mechanic that brings the enemy team back to life instantly without being able to stop it, it had less counterplay than any other ultimate in the game.

The counterplay is ult economy. You KNOW the enemy has a Mercy, and you KNOW she most likely has Rez charged up. And yet, your team still ran in willy nilly, blowing ults left and right, without having a back-up to out-play Mercy when she goes for the Rez?

Resurrect punished poor ult economy and poor strategy. It’s very easy to make Resurrect blow up in Mercy’s face if you’re smart enough to be two steps ahead of her.

Perhaps they didn’t need an undo ult spam button after they reduced the Ult economy by 20% across the board.