Well for me, because even though I will be penalized, I will do everything in my power to help my team recover and if I can save them a win, it’s worth it. Yeah you may win, but a lot of players who have a blip won’t hesitate to queue up right away for another Competitive match thinking it won’t happen again. That is what the suspension is for, to make sure they don’t jump back in right away. The SR deduction further sets this mentality. Again, I will say you only lose 50 SR which does not directly affect your MMR. It is easily recovered assuming any issues are resolved to the best of your confidence.
ok so 3 things.
- Why cant we earn our sr back if we rejoin and win the match
- I’ve rejoined a match despite being on suspension
- I once dc’d from a match, came back, lost, and gained 17 sr
something seems off with this system
See my post above.
If you are in the middle of a match, the career profile reported SR on the play menu will reflect the penalty, but if you return within the allowed time and complete the match, the penalty is recalled. I have tested this myself.
Unless you have very detailed before the match, after the match recordings to show this. I don’t know what to say. I maintain a personal journal to check my SR adjustments overtime and never had anything like you describe.
Yeah, you guys need to FIX that part of it. Leaving a D/C player with ZERO incentive to rejoin UNFAIRLY penalizes the other 5 members of their team! The -50 SR penalty is enough already.
Once again, if you can return within two minutes, there is no penalty. After that, remember other players on your team at that point have the right to leave the match and still take a loss but no suspension and immediately requeue for a new match.
i dont have anything solid to show for that as i didnt know it could or would happen myself, what i do know is that i came back within 2 minutes so i didnt lose 50 and then gain the 17
I understand how it works, but thank you.
What I am saying is that the current system is BAD. Keeping the -50 SR penalty in place but removing the ‘automatic loss’ aspect would be a GOOD system.
It’s abusable.
“This team is a bunch of idiots, I’m not playing this game.”
Leaves match. Goes and makes a sandwich. Eats the sandwich while watching Kitchen Nightmares clips. Rejoins match so they aren’t penalised for it.
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The reason why remaining teammates on both teams will take the match result is to prevent players having incentive to leave or attempt to coerce other players into leaving. In season 1, when there was a leaver, the match did actually adjust the SR calculation based on the odds of winning or losing for each team when there was a leaver. This result in season 1 having SEVERE leaver issues and increased toxicity. So they removed it (click here).
Yes, from the perspective of having to recover or reboot equipment, it typically is not enough time, but the time limit is more reflective on the state of the match. As I said, 2 minutes is an eternity for your team to play without you.
I’m glad you feel that way, but unfortunately not everyone shares the same mentality. Many people will say “Screw it, I get the punishment either way, why bother? Odds are we’ll lose, and that’s no hair off my back, so I’ll just come back later when my ban is up.”
It’s not so much that the -50 SR itself bothers me. I know I can get it back either way (done it more times than I care to admit). And the ban is fair as well, I get forcing people to wait to see if their hiccups are done before risking another match.
The problem is that since both outcomes are 100% the same, it encourages the selfish players to simply choose the path that’s easiest for themselves, which is to not rejoin and just do something else for 20 minutes instead of 10. Issue is, as you know, them not rejoining then keeps the other 5 players at a constant disadvantage that they can now no longer make up, which isn’t fair to them as they’ve done nothing wrong.
There needs to be some tangible difference that even selfish players can see that would encourage them to go back in, rejoin, and help out their fellow teammates. Hell, you could double a loss’s SR from -50 to -100 and keep the win at -50 if you want to get extreme (afterall, as you said, the actual MMR isn’t effected). But something needs to draw people back in, otherwise you’re left with more permanent leavers than rejoiners, which only escalates the overarching issue.
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Maybe, but maybe I DC’d because the power flickered in the heat of summer, not enough to turn off my computer but enough to disrupt my internet for a couple of seconds. Maybe my Ethernet cord got unplugged, and I plugged it right back in. While a 5v6 can be detrimental, instances such as these result in quick rejoins. Especially if a fight just ended and everyone is regrouping. Momentum can’t be lost if there wasn’t any to begin with.
I’ve played in matches where a player DCs and comes back and then we win the match. A brief 5v6 doesn’t guarantee a loss, but it does gurantee a Loss and -50SR to the poor sap who got disconnected, even if he rejoins and they win the match. That’s too harsh of a punishment, and there’s no benefit for the player to come back, if the system doesn’t automatically ban them.
Now, I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be any deterrent. But I am saying that, in cases such as these, rejoining the match after DCing should reset the SR measurement for the player, so win or lose its only their performance that happens after they rejoin that matters. Leavers don’t return to matches and can’t know when they’re about to end to gain any benefit from this.
A brief disconnect and then reconnect isn’t a guaranteed loss. A player disconnecting and realizing there’s no point to rejoining the match because he’ll be punished just as harshly, win or lose, is.
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But you lost 50 SR. Plus you lose SR for losing the game. That is not abuseable.
This only works if you know when the game is ending. A lot of the people on this thread are suggesting to keep the SR punishment for a loss, because that’s a fair punishment for causing a no win scenario for your team. But the punishment for a loss can’t be the same as a reward for a win.
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This thread is requesting to remove the 50 SR penalty. If they removed it, players would abuse the lack of 50 SR by returning to games last minute. Yes, they likely still lost some SR for losing the game, but it’ll be left than 50 + they don’t get a suspension.
Maybe, but how often do leavers (on your team) affect your specific games. And among those that leave on your team, is suspected to have a technical malfunction. I am smack dab in the heart of the Overwatch community as a Gold rank player and I have many 1 game out of 20 where there is a leaver on my team and not too many on the opposite side either.
Having a leaver (on either side) makes for an unfortunate game of Overwatch, but it will always be a persistant and uncontrollable factor no matter what changes they make to the leaver rules (unless they put leavers in matches with other leavers, which I think with Role Queue coming, that is extremely unlikely to happen anytime soon). Uncontrollable games (leavers, alledged “smurfs”, toxic players, cheaters, anything you can’t control yourself) will happen. I am just glad that Role Queue eliminated one uncontrollable factor which was dsyfunctional team comps. Before role queue, I believe 4 out 5 games are uncontrollable games, leaving about 40% of games being absolute wins, 40% being absolute losses, and 20% having the perspective actually being competitive. And while you should try to do your absolute best and take advantage of every situation in every match, its the 20% of competitive games that truly define how good of a player you are.
Now I want the percentage of competitive games to increase. Role queue is one key step in that goal from my perspective. I wish there was more ways to minimize the impact of leavers. Hell, I even wrote a topic about having a low-priority queue. Last year I wrote out ideas to enhance the game’s UI to prevent accidental leavers. But really, when a leaver happens, the damage is often irreversible for that given match. Focusing on making sure a leaver works to prevent from leaving future matches to me is more important.
In any case, I think I will conclude here tonight. I hope the information I have provided at least provides insight to why the current policy are the way they are. They could change, yes, and do try to come up with ideas, but just keep all parties (the leaver, the team of the leaver, the other team) in mind. I have been the observer of the endless leaver debate since getting myself nearly banned in Season 1, so I tend to come up with a lot of counter-arguments, but I do so to challenge your ideas and hopefully make them good enough to where Blizzard may find them useful one day.
People already throw by “randomly” disconnecting repeatedly during a match. I’ve seen it happen more times than I’ve thought to count.
Just want to focus on a couple of things here.
PUnishing people for leaving and then coming back and helping the team win decreases the percentage of competitive games that exist.
But not guaranteed. It’s like saying 3 or 4 DPS comps don’t win games, when sometimes they do. It boils down to how the players play.
There are methods that have been described within this thread to still deter players from leaving, but don’t punish them for coming back and helping their team win if they do.
It’s been said that Overwatch is a selfless game played by selfish people. I’m a pretty firm believer in this, and frankly the inclusion of Role Queue kind of seals that. With that in mind, the current leaver punishment system makes players selfish.
There are certainly players like you who will rejoin after being disconnected because you don’t want to hurt your team’s chances of winning, even if they were at a disadvantage. But there’s players like me who won’t rejoin after being disconnected because there’s nothing in it for me; if I’m not playing Comp with a group of friends, I will likely never play with that set of people again. I am guaranteed to lose 50 SR, even if I rejoin and our team wins. That line of logic doesn’t promote or reward teamplay or being a team player, and I certainly can find something to do for the remainder of the match and any minimal ban duration.
Again, I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be a strong deterrent for leavers, but there is an easy way to provide incentive for players to rejoin without benefitting said leavers.
- If a player disconnects, then rejoins, and then the team Loses, -50 SR
- If a player disconnects, then rejoins, then the team Wins, +Performance based SR starting from time of reconnection from below Diamond, or +12 SR at Diamond above.
Leavers that intend to disrupt are unlikely to rejoin a match. They also can’t abuse this since they won’t know when a match is ending, and even if they rejoin at the end of a match by chance, it’s doubtful their team will have won for a 5v6. This system doesn’t punish players as harshly for rejoining and winning. IT gives incentive to come back, which is something the current system Lacks.
Gonna pick apart things here a little.
This isnt a matter of frequency, but a rather a matter of principle.
Leavers could be a factor in only 1% of matches, but that doesn"t change the fact that if none of them return, you are screwed the few times it does come up.
Personally, I choose to believe that most of them are due to technical difficulties. I’d be glad to change that perspective if given reason to, but I honestly doubt that most people leave in the middle of a game just because they got upset or something, because no matter how you look at it, losing 50 SR ÷ getting a building suspension is worse than just losing maybe 25 SR. 3 years of playing the game in Gold and Plat, and I’ve only ever run into a single person who seemed to have ditched due to salt (but that was during a placement match, and those being worthless is a seperate discussion).
Even if they give up and choose to throw in the mean time, any semi-logical person would rather take the softer hit to their SR. And that’s exactly my point behind encouraging people to come back and help their teammates win again.
And they could help with reducing another uncontrollable factor, which is permanent leavers.
Again, this isn’t intended to reduce leaver games. They’ll happen regardless. But they can reduce the impact of some by getting people to rejoin afterwards. I fail to see a downside to that, assuming such a system is implemented properly.
It often is. Which is why I want 0 change to the policy if you lose. If you leave and cause truly irreversible damage, then by all means, give them the full punishment no matter what.
But there are exceptions, and some games are salvagable, especially if the player returns. Pushing people to try and make those exceptions and reverse that damage they initially caused isn’t a bad thing.
As I’ve stated before, this is where i disagree. If you make the assumption that most leavers are because something come up, then there isnt really any possible way to regulate and decrease that. Stuff happens, always will. But personally I feel that, in such a case, decreasing the overall impact of leavers becomes the more important goal.
Now, I’m not asking for anything extreme like buffing the teammates or giving a bot or anything. Instead I simply want a system where when given the question of “Should I return to help people out?” the choice is easy, consistent and positive (and unabusable).
Yea, definitely had to dip out to get some sleep before. Regardless, its been a pleasure, and should you end up not responding, have a good one.
Then whats the point of reconnecting then if you already lost -50 SR and even if you win is still count a lost for you and also you get the leaver punishment time on the searcher?
Once again the stupidity of this community amuse.
If someone has a crash/dc and comes back before the time expired shouldn’t be punished.
Disconnect should be punished just like leaving games overall are.
It’s not unfair either.
You can still win that -50 back just so you know.
Hell no its not. -50 sr & bans are there for a reason & wont go away. Even if you’d say how ‘‘harsh’’ they can be.
If you really dc this much, (cause 10 minutes isnt the 1st ban lenght you get), you should probs not play ranked / & get better internet.
Regardless if you can come back or not.