Projectiles dont lose their damage over distances in the game, yet bullets fired from a gun at high velocity do for some reason… This is dumb from two angles, one being that’s not really how it’d work in real life, and second, you’re punishing people who can actually aim in the game at long distances by doing less damage per skill shot while Hanzo spam and Mei’s ice get to keep their full output. Why? An arrow or icicle isn’t going to have the same force behind it over 200m as a bullet. It’s the worst feeling when you hit a 200 hp target 5 times in a row as Cree over a large distance and you think to yourself damn that was great skill landing 5 in a row on those tiny pixels, great aim, pat on the pack bro, surely I’ll be rewarded with a kill only to see the target still dancing around like nothing happened. A crosseyed Hanzo player gets to arrow spam a choke though and get idiotic lucky one shots and Junkrat will be Junkrat where his projectiles retain full power regardless of how long they’ve been cooking for and he can launch them out of direct danger in many cases.
I get that part of the design of the game was to make heroes that can have an impact that cater to players that don’t necessarily have FPS skills, but come on folks maybe rethink once again how damage is applied in the game.
EDIT: Side by side gif showing TTK of Hanzo and Cree shooing a target at the same distance with body shots. This isn’t balance by any stretch https://imgur.com/Exm87QS
Assuming the target is not standing still at long range, regardless if you’re Hanzo or Cree, you have a pretty good chance of not landing your shot. The difference is that on a non headshot, Cree hits for 20 if he does hit, while Hanzo hits for a whopping 125. And the fire rate between each possible shot absolutely does not make up for it.
or maybe you’re just bad at basic math or physics to understand why they designed them this way =.=
Assuming that the cursor is aimed spot on on the target…
Projectiles:
reaction time need to reactive dodge a fired shot = range_between_shooter_and_target/proj_speed - (proj_size_radius + target_width/2) / avg_hero_speed
of which is > 0s and this leniency to reactively dodge it increases the further the target is away upon firing the shot —> i.e. more and more inconsistent the further away.
i.e. sources of error = user’s aim + target reactively dodging your fired shot which is a function of range
Hitscan:
literally impossible to reactive dodge a fired shot because it’s instant.
i.e. sources of error = user’s aim and just the user’s aim.
to try and bring this down to earth with an example:
and that example isn’t even about directs (full damage shots) which is what we actually care about.
Howabout you scrap your points and start from scratch with the foundation being that unless you’re aimbotting, the cursor will never always 100% be placed in a position to hit the target without fail. All your calculations mean nothing outside of the vaccum where variables make real life application of math not all it’s cracked up to be on paper.
I’m literally showing you the math that demonstrates EXACTLY how projectiles are inherently more inconsistent compared to hitscans and how that inconsistency is 100% dependent on range irrespective of how good someone’s aim is.
Great, and I’m literally telling you math based on perfect variables means nothing in a living breathing match where a universe of contingencies make all the math you want to toss up so impractical in determining effectiveness that it becomes useless.
How you going to use math to prove arguments of consistency in a game that is absolutely inconsistent every nanosecond of every match?
If you look at the top scoring players, hitscans have a constantly higher hit rate over any projectiles. So even without 100% hit rate, the statistics show hitscans are easier to land.
Which means nothing about skill vs reward when the data doesnt take into account the distance the hitscan was landing shots and how many kills were made through their career at varying distances of the fight. Amazingly enough there’s more to the story than one statistic.
Take a top level hitscan and Hanzo player, place them in a game where a bot moves unpredictably at 51 meters and see who kills their targets faster, guess who it’s going to be?
apparently you don’t understand the simple relationship between speed, time and distance and what that means in terms of the capability/leniency for a target to dodge a projectile traveling towards them.
there’s something called stochastics, probability theory and statistics (no I don’t mean something like sports or hero stats, I mean the actual study of statistics).
although I don’t need to go into specifics of that for the inherent physical characteristic I’m pointing to here (longer distance —> longer travel time —> more lenient to dodge —> highly inconsistent for projectiles unlike hitscan which is instant), the point that there is math for this very this stands (if it didn’t, there’d be no algorithmic trading, quantum computing would be a myth, math behind various physics, chemistry, etc. simply wouldn’t work).
Yeah… it’s going to be the Widow. You can see that from The Real Kenzo. His hit rate and kill times are kind of insane from over 40 meters. But why do you need to exclude Widow? You’re running off the point of a one shot aren’t you? Assuming it’s purely about the difficulty vs reward, yes… with falloff the Projectiles MAY have a chance. But as soon as you put the no falloff suggestion in, the hitscan (Widow) shows that the more accurate one ALSO kills just as much or more.
Does this also take into account the fact that the player shooting at the target would not have “perfect” aim because they are human and everyone has differing capabilities in being able to predict target movement and aim accordingly?
does a projectile moving X m/s change speed depending on how well the user aims? no.
amazing how you you can’t see the point which is how the margin of error of “prediction” gets wider and wider the longer the range not to mention how for some projectiles, they start off with a large error margin inherently from how they’re numbered compared to others.
not to mention how you fail to see the fact that you need an extra layer of “prediction” on top of user aim isn’t an extra source of variability.
like again:
hitscan sources of error: user aim (i.e. how well they put the cursor to where they want to)
projectile sources of error: user aim (i.e. how well they put the cursor to where they want to) + target’s capability to dodge a fired shot (function of range)
The entire point is a Cree player shouldnt need to hit a target 10 times to attain lethal damage at a distance that makes landing the shots extremely difficult within a period of time and requires crazy amounts of skill to be consistent with, while Hanzo can in theory do the same damage with 5x less the shots fired assuming they are AS skilled at landing shots with Hanzo as the Cree player. It’s a gross imbalance.
So your answer is to put the hitscan at a worst possible situation to. But I’m willing to bet at 61 meters, Soldier is going to kill the Pharah before the Hanzo does at the high end. EDIT: Or Ana.
Vs Pharah/Echo isn’t a normal case since as a target she’s got way more unpredictability with moving vertically than a normal target strafing on the ground, so of course a hitscan is going to have an easier time than a Hanzo.
Case in point. Hitscans are more consistent to hit even at range/with falloff. You said moving randomly, so I simply turned the randomness up. How many handicaps does your argument get before you concede that hitscans are fine with the falloff or that projectiles fall apart next to no falloff hitscans?
