Damage doesn't matter unless an elim results from it

General Discussion
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The damage stats are worthless right now because if someone heals back the damage you did, you might as well be feeding the enemy healer their ult. The damage should only be recorded if it results in a direct elimination

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It would certainly be an interesting stat to see

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Depends on the support ult and how fast they heal.

  • If it’s bap, Moira or ana, you have to shoot to kill.

  • If it’s mercy, you are very free to do chip damage as long as they are sufficient to make mercy not able to damage boost.

  • If it’s lucio zen kiriko, you need to do enough damage to make their heal insufficient to overwelm them, but low chip dmg is bad against them due to their ult.

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What an absurd surface take.
What do you think leads to an elimination buddy? Do the math.

If you dont record the attempts to kill the enemy, DPS or anyone who deals damage will feel ignored and worthless, and then it would lead to them not doing damage or attempting to do it because they are not sure if they would succeed.

Would you like ALL healing to be not recorded unless you save someone’s life from a death? Because I am sure if anyone said that, 70% of the forum would be burning in flames.

PS: Not to mention that dealing enough damage FORCES people to retreat, which literally gives space/time for your team to take objectives.

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Usually Sojourn right clicks given the current roster lol

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The OP is partly right though. Damage on its own doesnt show who is most valuable at all. Very high damage without proportionally high elims just means you’re feeding enemy supports ult charge yet not killing anything.

Kills to deaths is the best indicator of performance although that too relies on damage not being extremely low. Focusing targets and punishing mistakes often results in far less damage but more elims than tunnelling the tank. Yet despite that being the correct way to play a lot of players then blame those players due to the lower damage.

Players who just focus on damage are simply misunderstanding the game and how fights are won. Stats need to be looked at as a whole with elims to deaths being the best idicator and generally speaking damage is the least important unless it’s extremely low.

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Don’t really agree. I have lost games just because an enemy dps (usually soldier) dealt 24/7 constant damage and we had to spend all our time healing and retreating. Also i keep shooting mercy which forces her to hide and making other elims easier.

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If by "partially right" you mean not 100% wrong, sure. Just 90% wrong, ok :+1:
Again, replying with the exception to a rule doesn’t refute anything. Very high damage without high elims might also mean that the rest of your team is NOT assisting enough, therefore they are the issue, not you.

Everything has 2 sides but this one is advocating to not record damage if it doesnt result in a direct elimination. If you unironically think that is not 100% wrong, IDK what to tell you :man_shrugging:

PS: DPS are “capped”, the entire team has to also assist and do damage. When you get 2 passive Supports and a "Chill back and Shield" Tank its literally impossible to finish many eliminations, and yes, that is NOT the DPS fault.

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This. Damage can not only kill, but suppress. Team can’t attack when they are all half HP, and they have to fall back to cover when healers can’t keep up. If you also make occasional kills - enemy team is constantly not full and has to fall back too. On push and escort it’s entirely possible to push enemy team back and push objective forward without killing them. Enemy team can have more kills and ults, but still lose because they are constantly forced off objective when you team is alive.

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Oh no autocorrect selected the wrong word. The horror!

It’s not an exception at all. It’s quite common for a dps to have a lot more damage but lower elims than their dps partner.

This is not the case if the rest of the team have more elims. Any damage counts towards an elimination so having far higher damage but less elims means that person is tunnelling instead of focusing targets.

It’s a good job my reply was more broadly about reading of the scoreboard and how lots of players think that damage is the most important/only thing that matters despite thay being incorrect.

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Bingo.

Also really weird that OP is completely invalidating Support’s job. Like if a Support is really fast reacting and uses CD properly to save their team’s life … somehow thats the enemy DPS fault for failing? And the DPS should be punished instead of praising the fast reaction from a Support? :thinking:

Really weird mate but ok.

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Damage and effective damage. Effective damage is your share of damage towards elims, damage should include damage done to shields even if just counted as 50%.

But honestly, if you see someone getting not a lot of damage but quite some elims, you can tell he’s doing good. If he’s doing like 6k damage but has 3 kills he’s just feeding.

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Of course things actually have to die.

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Why are your responses reading like Twitter “gotcha” quote tweets

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IDK how this is relevant but I dont have twitter lol.
Using emotes is kinda normal since … the 80s? IDK why it seems weird to you but ok.

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Idk, call me old fashioned but it kinda devalues the argument you make when you add stuff like “buddy” and emojis. Makes you sound like a minor trying to act older for some form of “respect” I guess.

Back on point:

Adding to this a bit; this could simply be the enemy supports playing like gods as well. I’ve had games on various payload maps where the supports have had almost identical healing to the damage outputted by my team, due to the combination of good teamplay and positioning.

But yeah, idk how OP’s proposed damage stat would present itself ingame; It’d probably just cause more confusion than is necessary.

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If a support heals someone to full, they are always saving someone’s life because unlike damage you can’t keep healing someone when their HP is full, you can do infinite damage to a tank or DPS but if you can’t kill them, it doesn’t matter when their support is always healing them to full, so this logic literally cannot be applied back to support lol, that is a ridiculous take

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I think the point behind the OPs argument is Target Priority and that is a crucial part of the Game.
That doesn’t make the current damage stat irrelevant or replace it in anyway.
I had a match as Rein where my damage was the highest in the Match but I didn’t get the elims. However my team had 4x my Elims from me playing aggressive. I remember we lost the match because their team had more shield pressure than mine /or I was too aggressive and doing too much Damage when my team was playing for Picks. Whereas I was wanting to brute force the Rein.
Everyone has their own Game plan.

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2nd time, again this is not relevant at all and its kinda weird that you are making up “emotions” or perceptions that for some reason you think devalue the actual point im making. Thats you, you deal with that mate. And yes, I am older. Im not “acting” older.

Its not even confusion, its just absurd. Its just devaluing damage for no reason at all, and that affects all roles, but specially DPS because they are the ones forced to pump more damage per second.

No.
Thats false.
First of all because statistically Supports do not heal the full amount of someone’s HP so following your “logic” , Supports should only record healing to someone that is underfire. If they are not, then it doesnt matter because that player could go for a Pack etc. See how absurd that is? That is your “logic” to DPS.

The dude saying that DPS that doesnt deal to a direct elimination is saying that is ridiculous? Good one :+1:

Dealing damage has A LOT of utilities. Yes, one of them is getting direct kills, others are forcing retreats and destroying shields and that is not useless or to be ignored. That is a job someone has to do. Also again, you are invalidating the Support job.

^that alone makes your suggestion invalid.

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This is actually a hilarious point. The current system make it so that your damage is recorded no matter what, so that is if a support were to heal a person full HP, the Healing per second is still counted in even if they are full HP. Your entire point sounds more and more absurd. By that logic, shooting shields should also be counted as damage dealt lmao because it’s forcing a retreat?