Dafran DERANK trying to Unranked to TOP500 using liveweaver

General Discussion
42

Maybe Dafran is not that good with this hero. Just like Mercy before.

43

Everyone depends on tank, tank depends on support. That is how it goes. As a DPS you need broh your suppprt and tank not to suck and your carry potential is close to zero.

44

i say he pretty good as mercy, even arguable better than most top 500 OTP mercy mains

his mercy unranked to top 500 takes about 50 hours to compelete on season 3

while some top 500 mercy also do it, and it takes them like 1 whole season to finish it ( more than 200 hours )

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45

Yeah I watched his last stream. Was pretty rough. LW suffers just like Mercy. You are dependent on your team being able to make plays. The character has zero carry potential in his current state. His damage is low, so you are just a heal bot. People in lower mmr also hardly ever take advantage of your platform to take high ground.

I think his mmr is getting pretty established on the LW account. So he is going to be somewhat hardstuck around gold/plat mmr unless he grinds probably 50+ hours. Even then, idk. I will continue to watch though.

46

You say this as if this is a bad thing. In reality, you’re saying “What your support can do when they can’t heal is as important as their healing”, and that just seems fair to me.

47

Am I supposed to be impressed by someone who routinely throws from top 500 all the way down to garbage, and then slaughters his way back to the top against opponents who aren’t even remotely close to being in his league? That somehow manages to sound boring/pathetic and cruel/unfair at the same time. Not to mention bannable. I’d report for sure if someone was throwing my match for content.

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48

How are normal alt accounts problems?
Alt accounts are accounts that are being played normally, they’re not breaking any rules.

49

You’re creating another fresh account that has no matchmaking history. Depending on the rank of player that created it this will lead to a whole bunch of trashed matches until they have some stats associated with their account.

The people that create these accounts often put in arbitrary restrictions to use for practise or whatever. This results in people manipulating their sr to somewhere lower than what they actually are and sticking to single options/refusing to counter pick even when countered, where they normally switch if they were on their main. That is until said person wants to win because their SR is too low for what rank they want to practise the other heroes at and will just go to their main and win however many games it takes.

This is all because people actually care about winning on their main, whereas the others are “just my alt”. In the end people are foisting their concerns about dropping rank on their main onto people lower down they don’t care about. I see it as a selfish behaviour that, with the never ending stream of alt/smurf accounts created has led to the absolute dumpster fire that is the matchmaking we are currently experiencing.

3 Likes
50

How is that any different from a player who has expereicne that transfered over from another game?
You’re also assuming that the new players know absolutley nothing.

That is a smurf account.
People playing normally on their accounts are not manipulating the SR.

Sure, some people have that mentality. But they also have that mentality about any game mode that isn’t comp. So how is that different?

You are making a lot of assumptions about people you don’t know.
Matchmaking was shiht before, and it’s not because of alt accounts.

I had an alt account because I believed I should have been at a higher comp rank than I was.
I treated it like my main for that season and ended up with a higher rank that I could maintain.

51

With regards to this hero’s design, it’s one thing for a Mercy to depend on a team mate by enabling them through damage boosting, but it’s another to get your team mate to know when and how to use something like a platform. I sometimes just place down platforms for people to use shortcuts or to gain high ground advantage and they either miss it, mess up, or don’t use it at all, or someone who doesn’t need it burns it just like a kid who can’t help but press the shiny button. I understand they want to make heroes that play like Mercy with regards to easy healing, but man at least also consider solo play? Why go backwards in hero design? Like, isn’t one of the major points for the changes in OW2 was so that individual players have more autonomy to a game, no? I don’t know anymore.

52

It’s pretty pathetic that he struggles in owl and isn’t played there either though lol

53

Because the player already has an account. They don’t need another.

New accounts created by people who already have an account is still a smurf as you’re making it to be put against lower ranked players. Resetting your sr is manipulating your sr.

On their main they’ll be put against comparable people not just against people they decide they want to play against.

You can of course aggressively throw but at least then they might be banned.

This is what these people do, and the most vocal come out and tell you exactly that. I play against them and have done for years.

Alt/smurf accounts have absolutely contributed to the terrible matchmaking. There’s no way a constant stream of players who know the game well but are wanting a new account to reset their SR to screw with people wouldn’t have that impact.

You would’ve gotten there eventually. Instead you made another account and trashed a bunch of matches to see if you started afresh it would put you higher :face_with_diagonal_mouth:
That’s what I mean by selfish people foisting their problems onto others :man_shrugging:t2:

54

You don’t think they need another account.

No, it is not.
A smurf is someone who goes out of their way to derank.
What about someone who lost their account and had to make a new account. From that logic, they would be a smurf.

That’s not how it works.

Seeing how vocal you are about it


You are still confusing smurf and alt accounts.

I’m still in bronze on this account, but please, tell me more. (:

You’re acting as if I threw games and did terribly.
I did not.

I am not foistering my problems on anyone.
You are by pointing all these fingers at me.
Remember, when you point one at me, you point 3 at you.

I’m leaving, you’re not going to chang your tune; there’s no point in continuing to talk to you.

:wave: :wave:

55

No, they don’t.

A smurf account is created to reset your SR/whatever comp points the game uses. This can be used to stomp low ranked accounts or play “anonymously”. An alt is a new term people have made up to try and justify this themselves being fine.

See above.

It’s still causing the same problems even if you’re below, at or above the median


Yes you (and others) are.

I genuinely don’t know what you mean by this.

The same goes for you :man_shrugging:t2:

:wave:t2:

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56

The problem is, anti heal just stops an entire role -and- has more play making than anything lifeweaver can do. Even a half decent timed anti-heal wins a fight more often than lifegrip does.

Winning fights wins games.

57

Yeah this dude makes a lot of Dafran threads. It’s kinda like a focus or i wonder if he’s maybe like a fan or dafran cheerleader/boy or something haha.

But at the same time, for people calling Skill issue and calling 41% lifeweaver “amazing since he takes skill”, but also people who’ve taken nearly every other hero and are consistent top 500s, even on off roles.

It’s kind of telling that even top 500s are only finding plat 3:6 performance with him.

It kind of reminds me of another game where the number crunchers found out that one tower did like 50% more dps than the other, but it was in the form of like 1800 dmg on some 9s cd game in a td game. The other tower did like 300 dmg every 3s.

Aka 200 dps vs 100 dps. A lot of people just pointed out that the people finding more results with the high performer just saw a “skill issue”, while also at the same time, lower ranks would die with the slower attacking tower, (because they didn’t know how to play it’s strengths). But find the lower dps but more consistent towers more “skillful”.

Aka, they sometimes mistook hard to win with = More difficult/skill required to win, all other things being equal. And argued that they were just more skilled.

Now i can’t argue that it likely might take more skill to achieve a equal rank as lifeweaver than any other role, but it’s almost like the reverse argument of potential. If a character takes 10x more results to achieve half the result. If top 500s with near aimbot levels of aims.

(Dafran and Takatae in particular stand out as some of the top 500 gms who’ve got incredible tracking. Takatae can go to gm on headshot only kirikos, Dafran gets to top 500 sometimes stomping lobbies with near aimbot level aim, to the point he switches with full ult sometimes to swap a counter just because the soldier ult doesn’t add much to a guy who already gets like 80-90% accuracy aim and can camp top 500 lobbies.)

Now, if Lifeweaver was a character like smash bros jlgglypuff that was bad in the hands of bad players, but able to have a few players dominate top 500 lobbies or tournaments in the hands of skilled mains.

That’d be another thing. But he has mediocre healing with downsides (45-50 hp/s with perfect 65 timing, 25-40 hp/s with realistic timing/clips), his right fire is good on a practice bot but also unconsistent to ko a 200 hp in 1 clip while long reload and bad overall non test dummy dmg.

(Practice range bots HIDE that most ingame player models like tracer are 3x thiner and stationary. He shreds a bot fine in a second but the combo of a inaccurate projectile with low dmg + spread makes it a doomfist primary tier main weapon.)

It’s a bit of a red herring, you go into the practice range and he headshots the basketball +50% sized headboxes very well, but it’s like if Zen only did 5 damage, had like a 200 dmg sized clip that couldn’t ko if he missed even 20% of shots, and had his orbs fire randomly in a doomfist shotgun sized hitbox, while also having similar limits.

His “high dmg” shreds a training bot deceptively well, Lifeweaver actually has one of the better travel times. (I think, Lifeweaver’s is fast, Lucio and Mercy’s are slowest, Ana is kinda in the middle, and Zenyatta’s is decently fast). But the spread just makes it kinda unreliable.

People don’t pick doomfist for his primary, but the spread and the delay, and lack of killing in 1 clip potential with lack of close range headshots make it a very lackluster mid range weapon. (While most other dps characters are also even more deadly in close range with premium ko/Nade headshot/Mow down abilities)

I half suspect that if even consistent top 500s are finding lifeweaver hits 3W:6L plat when their widowmaker’s/cree t500 aim led to gm on dmg only kirikos or offpick mercies
 That it’s not a goodsign that lifeweaver is top 500 and has secret strats only gms know


Like casting a petal on a mccree deadeye a top 500 ana might instantly sleep during the 2x it happens in a match.

I think people are overestimating his lack of tempo and performance. Since the rework, he has been able to match healing numbers with other healers. But i also remember a game i had where all dps on LW’s team did 50% more dmg, and the other healer on the LW team had 1.5x MORE healing than the enemy team. [About 8k Dmg + 15k-20k to the enemy's 2k Dmg + 10-13k healing supports. (LW did 3k dmg + 9k healing)]

Aka, more stats, And the game still was lost on the LW team by 3 minutes even though the team pulled for more dmg, more healing. So what gives?

We looked back, and even though the numbers were higher, we noticed that although lw matched numbers, 3 minutes of the 10 minute match were lost on payload/objective tempo. Aka, to match the same numbers, people had to leave from fights for 30% of the match, to achieve equal results.

**Pulls saved lives, but they lost 3 minutes of objective time in that comp match. Even though we won more team fights, had more fights we had to retreat/pull while the enemy team made massive progress/contest ability to stall each push.. One team kill for them might get them 20% through the map. One team kill for us might only get half as much distance before we needed to pull to save weaver or leave the payload due to lack of in combat Contesting heals.

While A ana or mercy could heal on the cart, with brawling tanks, the tanks often had to fly AWAY from payloads to the LW’s petal/corner to be healed. Then fly back. Even though teamfights were equal and the LW matched enemy healing with good peels.

The LW team just had less tempo in general. It had less ability to stay on cart, contest objective time, and stay in the fight even though deaths on paper were less.

Closing Thoughts

Yeah, This dude makes tons of Dafran fanboy threads.

But if consistent T500s who did dmg only kirikos to GM can’t bring lifeweaver past 3W/6L plat.

Is this “High skill required” hero really meaningful [without kill potential, aim potential, tempo potential, lack of cart contesting ability/tempo] just for a 20 s cd on the equivalent of a mei wall’s utility for top platform without the fight splitting wall, 1v1 dueling ability/dps, self heal, or team kill potential ult?

He can match paper stats now better than before. But none of it comes with as much play making tempo/utlity that Baptise/Mei’s dps/healing, wall or ults couldn’t ALREADY do.*

[He struggles without a strong payoff, and even if his team keeps a good K:D ratio, they often can find themselves far behind on tempo, even when every other team stat remained the same or better.]

Summary

Pros of LW: He can put himself on a petal and self peel once every 12s, and match paper stats with a tree.

Cons:
o Bad tempo
o Bad healing tempo
o Bad dps tempo
o Bad play making potential tempo
o 200 hp on a bastion sized support hitbox. Aka very easy to bodyshot with reapers/tracers/doomfists/balls/s76s, with his petals adding a wider hitbox than his already Junkerqueen size body.

o Lacks strong ability to keep his team contesting payload/objectives without ult.
o Even WITH ult, he can struggles to make team winning plays, with tree only helping him match the numbers of other healer’s base healing.

o Lacks (Solo) Team fight winning utility.

  • Ex: solo que transcendance, Lucio’s Overhealth, or even the fight utility of EVEN mercy’s evasion ult (“OMG CAN ANYONE KILL THEIR MERCY? SHE’s BEEN CONTESTING FOR 20S!!” ), etc
  • Ana’s ability to sleepdart high noons, nanoblades, nanovisors, potential split shatters.
  • Sure, he can petal a high noon/visor. But so can sprinting to highground/mei wall. It doesn’t add dps, just highlight the enemy will move to a floating platform.

o For a pure/hybrid healer, he often seems to underperform just to match equal numbers. People have shared 50% of their healing coming from his tree just to match mercy’s now. His 1s charge, 0.3s recovery “65 hp/s” is 50 hps on frame perfect timing. [65/1.3s]
o With human delays, it often becomes avg 50 hp/1.4s. Reaching 30-45 practical hp/s vs Ana’s 90 hp/s potential or mercy’s passive 55 hp/s ± 30% dmg beam. Plus healing lost from reload delays or being a easy target.

  • (On training grounds, Even Brig’s aoe healing without repair packs can keep the training dummies topped better by whipping a dummy’s face every 5s. Only LW and Zen are sluggish here. )

Tl;dr

Lifeweaver can pull you from a fight to avoid death sure, but he lacks many tempos. He often pulls a ally from a fight, only to lose on objective time or dealing less effective midfight healing/dmg to targets. His healing numbers, even if equaled, are often of lower quality than other supports for killing/staying potential

(Below is just trimmed off fluff you can skip or read if you want.)

(Examples of Lw’s tempo struggles:
Lackluster Fight tempo, Kill potential tempo, heal potential tempo, fight sustain tempo, Team kill potential tempo, contest point tempo. Tank helping tempo (Sigma/orisa/Rein + LW vs ReinAna 2v2, get anti’ed, lose ground, pull, lose point, heal over 10s, other team respawns over 10s and turns “Saved 2v2” into “2v5”, Other team snowballs),
→ Begin to lose tempo 2v5,
→ Die and have team begin to be 5v5 spawncamped tempo
→ Continue to be spawncamped Since someone on team picked comp LW until the LW switches and you noticably starts winning tempo.
(This perhaps might indicate that LW may drag higher MMR people down to ranks they have a 40-50% wr at. To the point when they switch early, fights may reverse, when switched late, it may already be too late)*

(Buffs let him match paper stats far better, but his kill tempo is low, his healing tempo is low, his playmaking tempo is low are all awful drawbacks.
He doesn’t scale with aim or kill potential well with t500 aim. He’s a jack of all trades that’s worse than every hybrid’s offhealing/off dmg for a situational petal.

Petal and pull are unique sure, But there could be lots of ways to make it better. Maybe faster petal cds, petals could heal people on platform, maybe increase his max charge to 80/1.3s (60 hp/s), Maybe increase clip ammo or reload on primary for better clip dmg. Maybe G to lower/raise petals multiple times so allies could reuse them /gain more utility, instead of being useless after 1 accidental misuse.

Numbers can easily be tweaked, but rn there’s more downsides than high tempo upsides for LW atm.

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58

Lifeweaver healing is fine considering his other utilities. What he lacks is a bit of damage and ways to protect himself. He is by far easiest to flank, easier than Zen.

 

+ Dmg buff - right now he can’t defend himself, and only his good but not great healing is not enough for team fights
 
+ Survivability - his platforms are most used during fights and are not available to defend during flanks, he needs a way to defend himself
 
+ Ultimate - his Tree of Despair is insignificant and won’t win fights, needs buffs to how quickly it provides healing

 
Ideas:
Dmg buff - every 10th thorn is poisonous with 10 additional bleeding damage, forcing more precise aim and threatening characters at close range
 
Survivability - his dash will also send spikes around him in 1.5m radius dealing 20 damage plus 20 bleeding damage
 
Ultimate - just reduce how quickly the tree beats

1 Like
59

I feel like a LOT of Lifeweaver’s power is in the ally-hook skill. Rein misses a charge? Fixed. Roadhog grabs them? Fixed. Genji rushing them? Gone. Sleep? Fixed. It undoes CC and dive pretty well in a way that makes punishing it difficult.

60

“what say you say trying what you say what” this is you rn

61

It’s the easiest role. The heck you talking about?