Exactly. These are the exact same faulty arguments the Mercy Mains used before she was nerfed.
I know right, but I want other people to see it as well. We live in strange post Mercy meta times where she has set a new standard for what OP is. If you are not literally throwing by not having that character then they aren’t OP. I am not joking when I say I have seen what is basically that argument
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Ok first of all, people are not going to use D.Va in Masters/Grandmasters because she is “fun” or “popular” or “waifu material.” They play to WIN and only to win. That’s why you see so many of them throwing hissy fits at Torbjorn and Symmetra players, because it hinders their ability to win.
Secondly, dive meta has been the widely used meta in diamond+ since APRIL 2017, right after a Winston and D.Va buff.
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The fact is she gets Free 200 Burst damage with little to no risk and has health and armor for days to escape with a 5 sec cd with RB.
So she has but not limited to
- High Health
- High Mobility RB 5 sec CD ( lowest mobility cd in the game )
- Ability to Stop projectile Ultimates ( Mei \ Hanzo \ Pharah )
- Infinite Ammo
- High Burst
- RB 25 + Meele 30
- DM + Missles 162
- Burst Potential on faceplant 217
There are currently 17 Characters with 200hp or less.
Which mean 17 characters can die to her before even being able to hurt her thanks to DM ( not complaining about DM - just the combo and why it is OP)
Finally, she has to just survive 3 seconds before she can RB to escape.
3 seconds of primary cannon she has the rough potential to do 150 damage. So that means she can kill 250 hp by the 3rd or 4th second while taking minor damage.
That makes 20 characters she can burst with little risk.
And if she does 600 hp she has an additional 150 hp after that.
Which means to kill D.va she actually has the most HP in the game at 750
400 Health + 200 armor + 150 Mini D.va
On top of which her Mini D.Va gun is extremely powerful 98 damage per second on body shots 196 damage per second on headshots
…
The problem there are way too many positives.
And I agree her previous version of her being a DM bot was not fun her current version is more “Fun”.
One way to reduce her 0 risk hyperburst is to reduce her turn speed, so she can’t turn as fast. Mostly because nerfing her RB would make her a sitting target and useless so she needs that mobility.
Making her turn speed take 1 second to do 90 degrees would make her much more vulnerable in a face plant situation but will have little no effect on any enemy that is 10m away…
Then Reducing her health to 300 health 150 armor
That way she doesn’t have the most health in the game.
Which would be 300 + 150 + 150
Now before you argue something silly like - She is short range she needs health!
Keep in Mind Symmetera has 0 mobility and only 200 health. So I am sure D.Va can manage with 550 and a RB CD of 5.
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450 hp would kill D.Va. The solution to her survivability is to nerf her ult, not her health.
Her ult is probably one of the least dangerous - it more for disruption then killing.
That is like saying
That guy is too dangerous running with a sword.
So the best thing to do is make him stop wearing black clothes and dress him in blue.
There is no issue with her Ultimate at all.
Her ultimate is fine.
Also it is not 450 hp. It would be 450 + 150 = 600 total.
People keep forgetting that 150 Mini D.Va health must be included.
As Mini D.va can still do damage it is not as she is King Leoric in HoTS that can’t do any damage and must just wait to respawn.
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Her ultimate is an issue because it gives her a free mech. If it costed more people would be more inclined to not waste it on a new mech as well. Baby D.Va dies instantly a lot of the time, she only has 150hp and is stuck in a long ejection animation. It isn’t 600hp because she is inherently put in a disadvantage state between the 450hp and 150hp. Additionally, she can’t gain back her health like a Roadhog can if she loses mech.
IMO it makes more sense to put DVa on the level of hog/orisa and rein/zarya then to make tanks strong again.
As long as she has 150 hp and can still fire her gun.
It doesn’t matter. It means a Hero is on the field that can still contest the point and can still kill people.
So that 150 HP character is still in every way a viable character.
These would be two contradicting arguments.
She can gain back her health by using her Ultimate.
Roadhog has no armor, Roadhog has no Mobility.
Comparing to Roadhog is just silly.
She can still be healed in her Baby D.va Form and gain back her mech usuallly within 10 - 20 seconds after losing it.
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D.Va’s mech health is separate from Baby D.Va’s, so she’s can’t be healed from Baby D.Va to her mech. D.Va used to have 400 armor and 100hp, and she was basically useless. Obviously she didn’t have a lot of other things but D.Va having 150 armor and 300hp would be terrible.
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Tbh if dva was not waifu bait she would have been nerfed already
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We told you don’t touch her DM
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Ok there is a very simple fallacy to your argument
-
Can a Dead Hero Capture a point? - No.
-
Can D.Va still Capture \ Contest a Point after losing her mech- Yes
-
Can a Dead Hero still shoot and cause damage after dying ? - No
-
Can D.Va still shoot after losing her mech? - Yes
Which means there is 1 conclusion.
Baby D.va’s health must be factored in.
If Baby D.Va acted like King Leoric in HoTS it would be a different story.
When he dies he turns Etheral he can do no damage at all.
Which would mean changing it so Baby D.va can neither shoot nor capture.
But regains her mech in some other form such as standing still for 10 nonconsecutive seconds and channeling her mech call.
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I personally define OP as you need to have the hero on your team, basically the old Mercy. So with that definition, D.Va is not OP until the highest tiers. But it would be nice if there was a good reason to play Zarya/Hog instead of D.Va.
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How to balance a hero according to the OW forums:
- Who’s the most popular hero?
- Nerf the hell out of them
- Who’s the most popular hero now?
- Nerf the hell out of them.
And repeat
INSTEAD maybe look at making the less popular heroes MORE viable, not the good ones LESS.
But hey, if you want the game to be a constant nerf-fest, you do you I guess
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She can’t use any of her standard abilities and she can’t be healed into her previous health pool. Baby D.Va should be factored when balancing D.Va’s kit, but not when balancing her health pool.
I partly agree with you.
Rein got pushed back in a lot of maps because Orisa simply has more utility in most situations Rein would normally be useful (shield up every 8 seconds - spam meta - and can shoot whilst having shield - and the cooldown makes up for the lack of mobility with the shield.)
Perhaps with Brigitte Rein can be a more useful though, they seem to have a nice synergy, but only time will tell.
I don’t know about Zarya though, I think she is fine. (?)
I only partly agree because - while I love wrecking chaos with D.Va myself - I think either her damage values could be tuned or her boosters’ cooldown increased slightly.
Honestly? I think Sombra is a bigger issue right now. I love the buffs, but they’re slightly overtuned in a way is making her almost a must pick rn.
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That results in powercreep -
There are many Heroes people already considered balanced
For example S76, Zenyatta, Rein etc.
Which means buffing Heroes to reach their level, and Nerfing heroes to reach their level.
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Touching her DM was not the issue. Them not giving her a flat out nerf was
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Except those less popular heroes didn’t change. All that happened was that D.Va was overbuffed twice, first with the minimum range and again with the rework. Asking for a blatantly overpowered hero to be nerfed instead of power creeping the rest of the game is much more reasonable. The “buff everyone else” argument was the same one the Mercy Mains used, and it was just as bad of an argument then as it is now.
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