Why fix the problem when you can just cover it up… with cover?
Honestly, Blizzard are so reluctant to put the effort in to change her because that is wasting precious executive yacht and/or lawsuit money.
They think that it’s acceptable to just avoid interacting with the hero altogether. So effectively the best counter is to either not play, or hope that she isn’t picked. Well done, Blizzard… utterly stupid people.
The issue is the one-shot. Doesn’t matter how often it happens, the issue is how unfun it is when it happens. Same with Hanzo. He can be as weak or as strong at any time, as long as he has that one-shot potential, he’s toxic and broken.
There’s no excuse about “dealing” with the one-shots. Get rid of them.
Dude did you even read the post, And who said i didn’t like cover, how bout before you go insulting people you go back to 1st grade so you can read the post.
I explained why it’s not counterplay, because counterplay should turn the tables on your opponent, How do i counter Winston, by swapping to reaper and killing him, he had the advantage and now he’s at disadvantage, how do i counter a Genji, get a beam character and beam him to death, Is hiding behind cover going to kill the widow, no, My team hides behind cover and then nothing happens, because you can’t play the match and fight back if you can’t even see the enemy
I read the title and responded to the title. If that’s not indicative of your post, that’s a problem with you. Regardless, cover IS a counter to widow.
But it IS counterplay! That’s what I’m trying to tell you. You say “did you even read my post”, but you repeat the part of your post that I have an issue with. Like, you say
but firstly, no it shouldn’t. Counter play exists to counter act what a character is doing, and that’s what cover does against widow. And Secondly, there’s several flank routes you can access to get to widow and kill her. So that’s cover being counterplay in the way you define it.
Regardless, you can’t say “Cover isn’t a counterplay because of the way I define counter play.”. Would you accept “Reinhardt isn’t a tank because he deals too much damage”? Because that’s the same level of complaint you’re raising with widow.
You’re only suppose to hide for however long it takes to flank and kill widow! You’re using cover wrong and blaming widowmaker for it.
This is a logical fallacy. If I play against a widow and beat her, you’ll just say “Well, that’s not a GOOD widow”.
Do you know what flanking is? Widow can’t headshot you if she doesn’t see you coming.
Btw,do all the Widow you play against have aimbot to be able to headshot everyone from every direction.
What about baiting her shots?
To finish,Winston 's jump cooldown is much shorter than Widow’s hook one so she can’t escape for long.I don’t even need to talk about Dva or Ball…
I don’t think they’ll ever change Widow. When the dev team is dead set on a hero fantasy they will never listen. Best we can hope for is they add more cover to widow dominant maps.
Let’s not forget that in the highest level of play, OWL, Widow is hard meta, always has been, and is in every single match. If it truly was so easy to hide behind cover and make her useless she would not be hard meta there.
And she’s a problem there too. Just watching the matches I see her usually uncontested, sitting on a ledge in the distance getting headshot after headshot. One to another to another to another.
I even see them flat out try and ignore her sometimes, instead rushing at the Supports and Tank because they can’t do anything about her. If she starts picking the other team off during a team fight, they ignore her and keep fighting because they really can’t do anything about it.
I see Genjis do quick dashes at her and then run in terror instead of doing any followup because they’ll just be oneshot if they do.
Sigmas don’t bother using their shield for her and opt to just use it against the rest of her team.
The matches are pretty much decided by who has the better Widow.
Yawn explain this b4, and yes Winston’s leap is on a CD but the rest of the team would either you or your team, and that’s assuming there’s no support that’ll out heal your dmg, and assuming that you cam reach the widow in a timely fashion and with only one leap, which you probably wont
I m pretty sure anyone would agree that a player who can turn around and quickscope on Sombra and Genji’s heads deserve to win the duel. 99.9 percent of players would fail to do it.
And even if you did it a few times across multiple games won’t cut it. I headshot invisible Sombras a few times with arrows out of nowhere before, but it doesn’t mean i’ m confident that i can do that whenever i want.
Or Winston can jump her support first, drop a shield, by the time Widow could break Winston’s shield with her sniper rifle, Winston already finished the killing and 3 scopes of peanut butter.
if shes so op that enemies instantly lose head when they enter her LOS, you should be able to instantly climb to T500,
because nonexistant team cant push/defend objectives
who asked for widow to stay? become the worst widow possible that walks around those covers to expose enemies to your line of sight and kill them by simply walking and seeing them
Havana distillery phase has lots of places to touch point and have cover.
Unfortunately, the rest of the map is Widow paradise.
You can a/d peak from behind natural cover, but risky against a good widow.
Correct, being pinned down by anything is not a good position, and from a Widow it can be the worst.
I think most counterplay comes from dive-style heroes. While I don’t know if it’s enough, I do know there are plenty of options available. Winston, Ball, and Doom can all make Widow’s job more difficult.
Yep. Cover doesn’t help at all since it doesn’t suddenly mean anyone can contest her and eventually your team needs to leave cover and move forwards.
Unsurprisingly this thread is filled with metal rank counterplay suggestions from players who just don’t understand why it doesn’t work in high ranks. Yet also refuse to consider that they’re wrong.
What is your rank?
What heroes would you consider viable to counterplay Widow?
What do you see enemies doing when your team has a Widow?
Widow is only oppressive in GM+, and there the major factor is team play anyways so there’s already ways to deal with her by nature of what comps you force. Everything below is literally just a skill issue. If you die a lot to Widow, or feel zoned by her all the time, then there is a major knowledge gap in your understanding of the game and how to obtain value.
A better wording would be: “Widow is annoying to play against because I don’t want to force myself to change my understanding of the game and how I play it”.
What’s the counterplay to the overtuned support role? Especially those unnecessary invulnerabilities? Oh right, it’s one shots. Who would have thought?
sombra can be a real good counter depending on who’s team supports who. this sombra would have won the game since she kind of took me out of the match a bit. my team was just better i guess
??? people run flex and main support comps ALL the time, PRIMARILY because most of the time, one flex support will be able to handle most of if not all healing, thats why running double flex support comps is dumb, but support players STILL do it because they have a rotten cheese block for a head, this is not an advantage, especially if a widow is dominating the game, you have far less flexibility and options
sombra hacks widow, then what? shes got a mercy pocket and it only takes 2 seconds for her to get grapple again and get out of sombras effective range.
a widow can perfectly handle 2 dive dps, that is WHY all of high elo complains about her, shes too powerful in maps that favour her, genji was one of the only dps who could contest her, he could actively reach inaccessible highground that she was holding due to her grapple, he could contest her even with a pocket, they gutted his damage and nerfed his kill potential by 50 fold along with the fact that they nerfed his blade at launch and now we have the lowest stats on him EVER.
also are we gonna ignore that winston literally cannot outdamage mercy’s beam? the worst part is that her heals go through shields, so there is zero counterplay to this except chasing the damn angel with a 2 second mobility cooldown that has a potential of going above 10 meters in the air or 20-30 meters forward and away from you, dva is mixed because she can out damage mercys heals with good aim but that doesnt matter as soon as widow gets out of her shotgun range with grapple, literally the only thing we need to do is stop giving mobility to snipers and widow is fixed, grapple is the most broken part of her kit, this was/is the same problem with sojourn, where you could one tap people with mobility along side it aswell, what is the point of short ranged heroes precision heroes like echo, reaper, or genji, when they dont have an inherent advantage in close range, ESPECIALLY when you consider the amount of resources, risk to reward ratio you take to even engage a widow, the whole point of hitscan is to punish you for peaking them and actively pushing their space, you cannot actively contest a widow without peaking her, and if she uses grapple you have to disengage.
What is the point of giving them all this advantage against you in long range when you cant even kill them in close range because the devs gave her a damn grappling hook.
because either one of them have an extremely close effective range and both of them do piss for damage, again, grapple away, and shes safe from both of them, especially if she grapples into her teams backline.
they literally gave her an ability to mitigate the ONLY weakness she has you knobhead, that is the problem, not her oneshot, but the fact that they give abilities for her to fight back even at close range, when she shouldnt have any advantages at all or even the choice of escaping, because if your caught off guard as widow it should be a GUARANTEED death, the same way it is on a flanker if you F up your cooldown rotation and caught off position.
hanzo is primarily balanced for this reason, hes ACTUALLY weak in close range, genji ACTUALLY counters him, even if lunge is a mobility cooldown, its one of the worst, probably never used to disengage and only for repositioning, that is why hanzo has the most balanced oneshot.
If widow didnt have grapple she would be balanced aswell, blizzard needs to stop making characters like zen who are inherently weak at close range FOR A REASON and then giving them CC/mobility to fight back, if you are caught in a bad position, you should be punished, especially for how much zen and widow do with relatively simple kits, NO and i mean absolutely NO character should be able to take an entire map/sightline hostage and ALSO have mobility to both disengage and reposition, this was single handedly the dumbest decision devs ever made for a character like her, maybe it made sense in overwatch 1 where an off tank could contest her, but because of the removal of the second tank, that no longer applies.
again, what is the point of giving her vulnerabilities only to give her ABILITIES to mitigate her vulnerabilities, this is the biggest contradiction and face palm of 2023
echo is not silent, if you are not deaf, you can hear her from a mile away, goodluck playing her in maps with night aswell, her skin doesnt do any advantages, she also has one of THE largest hitboxes for flankers alongside with reaper.
good luck doing that in havana, junkertown, busan control points, kings row, illios ruins, circuit royal, lijang nightmarket, dorado, rialto, route 66, shambali monestary, blizzard world, parasio and finally collosseo, all of the maps that widow holds hostage with the tiniest amount of game sense possible and all just aim which in a game like overwatch, is not that impressive unless you are consistently hitting tracers in close range.
all of this falls apart when you realise that half of their resources get taken up getting to a widow in the first place, 3 out of the 4 flankers have average to huge hitboxes except tracer which cant access vertical highground like busan downtown, and all of them cannot contest her above their effective range which is conveniently what grapple helps her do.
wait, poke comps dont exist??? oh my god, you are dumb.
otherway around.
how does one make such a blatantly dumb statement when hanzo is one of the easiest heroes do dive and get away with a kill, hes a damn projectile hero, his biggest counter is A/D strafing damn it, you can outplay him on just about any character, if he didnt have his scatter arrows or whatever they are called, he would be unironically worse than genji, and thats an achievement.
again, poke comps suddenly done exist for you i guess.
his mobility is crap and outmatched by genji, he has a huge hitbox, slow firerate, his only fire slows his movement speed down, he has no passives, he is a sniper built right, you complaining about hanzo is just telling on yourself to the whole world.
yknow whats the funniest thing about this? winston cannot do a single thing about two support healing other, seriously, other than putting a shield between them, which is makes no sense because the shield usually just plants right in the middle of where they are, like two characters in the cast have heals that go through shields, the only reason this works is because you are in pisslow elo where supports forget they have the sustain of arnold schwarzenegger after going through multiple steroid cycles and still living above age 50.
Widows grapple cd is 12 sec and winstons jump 5 … as long as your supps do their job she should be toast or can’t shoot so winston done his job you just need to keep him alive
