Counterswapping makes skill invalid

General Discussion
1

That whole promise of less counters or less hard counters when moving to ow2 was just some lie. It’s still here and probably dumber than ever with solo tank.

When x player with 1500 hours on one hero can get hard stomped by someone with 30 hours on that characters counter, SIMPLY because that character is 10x easier to play and also counters the first one… it’s insane.

For example:

Ball / Doom taking way too many hours to learn for a majority of people, and being some of the highest skilled heroes in the game, and yet all someone has to do with zero prior knowledge of how to play the heroes they are swapping to, is just go cass or sombra and proceed to use their funny “ability turn off” button on these heroes and the heroes are now completely useless, no matter how good someone is.

And if they aren’t making the ball or doom completely useless (which with sombra is very easy to do) they are at the VERY LEAST, completely forcing them to change their entire way of playing, JUST from going to the spawn room and clicking H.

Instead of enforcing counterPLAY so people learn how to play against certain heroes and countering based off their skill, it’s now just counterSWAPPING, and players just not even bothering trying to outplay their opponent, but really just outswap and just go whatever character makes them useless.

It’s stupid.

And I understand certain characters FORCE counters (i.e pharah) and those should be changed. But I’m sorry, you don’t NEED cass or sombra to counter ball or doom.

I should be able to log on to overwatch, select the hero I want to play, and be able to play a full match with that hero, without just having an opponent go to their spawn room, swap heroes, and now I’m automatically just done for. Because guess what, whatever tank I go next, the SAME thing is going to happen. I’ll just get counterswapped for that too because the entirety of tanking in this game is literally just having your opponent hard swap for YOU, hard counter for YOU, and dump all their A.I abilities onto YOU.

No one even attempts to outplay their opponent anymore, why should you when the game gives you a braindead second option which will easily shutdown the enemy hero with little to no effort.

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2

“A skillful decision that you’ve trained to be skilled in makes skill invalid”

Ok buddy.

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3

???

There is no training to be skilled in walking in your spawn, clicking H, and just selecting a hard counter LMFAO.

That’s not even a skillful decision. You’re just throwing the word around.

Especially when the hard counter heroes… are the EASIEST ones to play.

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4

I think that person means that it’s skillful to know what counters a certain hero.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree, I’m just stating what I thought they meant. I have no opinion about this :+1:

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5

More than enough otps have proven that, with enough skill, you can also play against counters. Learn to play against counters or change your hero yourself if you are countered.

I don’t understand why you think you can dance around in the backline as a ball or doomfist without getting punished for it.

And I say that myself as a ball player.

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6

Reducing the overall teamsize only makes the singular pick matter more and thus makes it harder to balance.
For example, at some point the WoW balance team simply gave up on balancing 2v2 arena. It was and never will be balanced, because some classes with synergy will always dominate.
Going 5v5 for OW2 only made it even harder for them to keep things in check. They got around it by just stating, there are counters in the game and no matter how good your paper is you play, scissor will still win. Every Phara main will tell you that.

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7

Counter-picking is a skill.

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8

There’s skill in knowing more than one hero

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9

No… it really isn’t. Definitely not remotely close to simply counter-playing. There is no talent in just going a hero that easily dominates another.

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10

You have to still know how to play the hero. And if you can’t deal with it or swap your hero because you’re doggarbage at those heroes lil bro then it’s what we often call a skill issue anyways

Sez u

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11

No one is arguing about playing around counters, I literally stated that in the Op. they now have to COMPLETELY change how they play just from someone going in spawn and clicking on a certain hero. That’s the issue. No one wants to out play its who just outswaps, it’s idiotic. Especially when you are trying to solo tank!

Also no where did I say I want to run rampant for free. You’re just making stuff up. I have zero issues with being OUTPLAYED. But bring forced to at the very least get HALF the value I could get because someone goes sombra, sits invis in their backline, and holds right click waiting for me to dive in, is braindead! Same thing with cass and his nade! There’s no effort or skill being presented there it’s just “hehe i go spawn and completely invalidate any amount of time you put towards your heroes at the push of a button!!”

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12

If your a jq main and Someone “counter swaps” you if they don’t have the skill to back it up they lose automatically.

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13

So in your opinion it’s okay that you use Doom to coonter any tanks, because what’s Rein doing against a good Doom, or a ball against a good Doom. according to the logic it is of course okay that your hero takes out these tanks or any supports so that you can dive. but it’s not okay that someone else then switches to a hero, with which he countering you, that’s “unskilled”. Sure, Sombra is annoying against Doom or Ball… but that’s about it for Sombra. otherwise it’s absolutely useless unless played in a full stack.

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14

Doom doesn’t flat out hard counter anybody??? Like hello? We’re having 2 different convos here.

15

Yes, and if you want that, then, they should be expected to have the same thing back to you.

Some heroes have a hard time against ball, is it fair for them to have to swap because you have a mobile hero able to bypass the front lines, full of health?

Well, it is, but that it because they CAN swap, just like you can.

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16

Then you switch, welcome to Overwatch.

I don’t understand what you expect now, the game lives on it. You would have to change the game completely to prevent this from happening again. is that your thought?

and I don’t think it’s skillless because you switch to a hero that disables yours. Sorry, but if you keep getting disabled by the hero and can’t fight it because you can’t switch or defeat the hero, then you’re the one who doesn’t have a skill.
I get along well against Sombra, even as a ball, you just have to be aware that she’s there. you can track them. you can annoy them. and during that time she doesn’t play with her team. or you switch, and win.

6 Likes
17

Ay if you disagree, you disagree. Long as you know a grand amount of players thinking counterswapping is the worst part of overwatch rn and it’s boring.

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18

As I said, a lot of high-skilled players have proven that you can play against Sombra. that you can hunt them down. Same with Cass, who by the way can’t become invisible.

Sometimes, as a tank, you just have to stay with the team and wait for an opportunity. You can’t expect to be able to dive into a team over and over again without being penalized for it.

Are you exhausting for the opponents? They become exhausting for you. Especially as Doom or Ball, what would you do about a ball that dived your team over and over? What’s your answer to that?

Don’t switch to a hard counter and hope that the team will sort it out, or make sure the ball doesn’t have a very good time?

So a game that was designed to be countered shouldn’t be countered anymore? That’s why you can change your heroes at any time, what would be your solution to avoid that, how would you change that - apart from writing in a forum that it is absolutely skillless to switch to Sombra. Or Cass.

I’m really interested in a good solution for a game like overwatch.

2 Likes
19

Pick heroes at the start of the match. Do reworks to certain heroes. Etc etc. or an easier thing

At least make the counter heroes on par in terms of skill to play, with the heroes they are going to hard counter. The skill gap between a ball / doom, and a sombra / cass, is so far apart, they aren’t even comparable. Also your thoughts about playing against sombra show no mention of a sombra literally sitting in her backline, invis, holding her hack waiting for you to dive. There is nothing to do against that.

And ball can be played around and outplayed, WITHOUT going hard counters. You don’t NEED to swap.

20

This game is mostly counter picking. The ability to change heroes in the spawn room makes is game playable still… Other MOBA games you sometimes are screwed after the locked character selection.

2 Likes