Being completely shut down by a player mostly due to just how characters are designed rather than individual skill and effort is unhealthy and unfun. Knowing to counterpick is not a difficult skill. I can train my dog to put his paw on a photo of Zarya when I show him a picture of dva.
33 Likes
yep that’s why overwatch isn’t a popular game.
someone could have a million hours on doomfist and have a higher chance of winning by switching to a tank they never play just because the other tank hero isn’t countered.
14 Likes
Both sides can do it… but also being able to not swap and still handing someone their L when they counterpicked you is fun.
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I hate all the guns in CoD.
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counterpick his counterpick easy.
if you can’t, you’re probably 1. an OTP 2.two trick player
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Yeah dude so much fun to perma counterswap every game. I love switching 5+ times to have a chance of winning such good gamedesign.
Counterpicking was always a part of OW but in 6v6 it was not always needed to win, but if i want to play for examplee monkey in 5v5 and they switch to Hog or dva its gg.
6v6 was just better.
Can already see you saying im bad so yeah before you do that search up my op.gg Zilla#21249
8 Likes
You can’t have it both ways though. If you want a game where every hero has a unique skill set, there has to be a degree of rock, paper, scissors. No counters are only found in games where everyone is basically playing the same hero with a different skin.
Also if you want a hero that can delete all projectiles and 12 ultimates (entire ultimates deleted and a couple greatly reduced) you have to have a proportionate downside. You shouldn’t be able to negate all damage with no consequences.
14 Likes
Well, counterpicking wasnt that bad in 6v6 since the other tank could compensate for your weaknesses a bit.
But when your in a Tank 1v1 theres no room for flexibility, either the tank counters you or not.
5 Likes
You can do this. But it isn’t fun.
Yes. A degree of rock paper scissors. This is not a degree this is a double Phd with a masters in boring.
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The counters in Overwatch are really overbearing and just way too much.
It should be something not so gross. Tf2 gets counters right.
In tf2 the counter to sniper is the spy, but the sniper can be alert and hear the uncloaking sound and melee the spy first.
The pyro is the counter to spy, but the spy can avoid getting close and revolver him out.
Tf2 has lots of soft counters, you can work around the classes who are supposed to counter yours, meanwhile in Ow…
The counters in Ow are mostly a battle you can hardly win. Pharah herself is an example of this, her presence already makes her untouchable for a big part of the rooster. A fight against a reaper for some tanks is pretty much impossible.
Its not healthy for the game but its a game design change that needs to be well thought out to be fixed and we all know blizzard devs have no development skills to do so. They are as subtle as a raging rhino with their sledgehammer solutions. No wonder the counters in Ow are so brutal and out of wack.
4 Likes
Yeah I appreciate that. I find myself swapping the most (and wasting most ult charge) when I’m playing tank. It does help to know and want to play more than D.Va though. Eventually one tank will run out of swaps they can play proficiently, and it settles down somewhat. I rarely spend a whole match swapping like it’s mystery heroes.
These D.Va players seem to never switch. So if I’m against one as a tank, my brain almost always goes “easy win, they won’t switch to counter”. And if we have one on our team, I pretty much am waiting for the loss.
That’s only the case when said tanks are poorly balanced themselves against each other. Since there is only one of them, they have to make sure that tanks matchups are well designed and to be fair a lot of that discussion comes down to map. Zarya beats D.Va… but only on brawl maps where D.Va can’t abuse highgrounds. On Dorado 1st and 2nd Zarya is worthless even into D.Va. Widow counters everything on Havana but is pretty garbage on KOTH maps with short sightlines.
A lot of issues comes down to map being bad and providing no solutions for every character to effectively use them so it narrows choice to few meta picks. The worst offenders of this are sniper maps imo, but brawl maps also don’t really like dive characters or dive maps hate brawl characters. You can force D.Va on Kings Row but expect that Zarya pick. But if you play Gibraltar Zarya is garbage against D.Va because she can just stay away from her whole game and still provide value to her team.
Rework maps before fixing heroes, add some sort of map ban etc. That would solve a lot of frustration with the game imo.
3 Likes
Or, or just hear me out. Instead of compleltly having to rework Maps and Heroes.
Just keep 6v6 and balance CC, Shield Sustain and AOE Heal.
Sounds way easier to me, but i am heavily biased in favor of 6v6 anyway so 
8 Likes
6v6 had another issue - extreme dependancy on tank synergy. If you had your classic Winston + D.Va duo vs something random like 2 off tanks like Zarya + Hog your chance of winning was like 90%.
Fixing this
would still make tank combos oppressive as hell.
You can have 2 random dps and work well because they don’t depend much on each other. 2 supports are working fine as long there is one that can provide enough heals for team (i guess you can make a case for even very low healing comp, but those rarely work in ranked). Two off tanks was genuine garbage, with some combinations that literally didn’t work at all like Zarya D.Va.
Original OW was way too heavy skewed towards team compositions. Nowadays it’s mostly tanks who suffer and that’s hard to balance. Even if you fix tank matchups entirely (which again they depend on map as well) some characters like Ana are very strong against tanks. If you fix those then you may run into issue that tanks are not dying and just bullying everyone but another tank.
What change would make D.Va players happy though?
They’re easily one of the most, uh, passionate fans of their hero, second only to Mercy mains, and it’s like they would only be happy with a rework that allowed you to exclusively play D.Va with no cons.
Also bear in mind there’s no way on earth they’d ever roll back to 6v6.
1 Like
not swapping hero to counter/negate counter should be a bannable offense
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This problem is still existant in 5v5 though, if your Tank picks the worst hero on tank its similar to picking a bad tank combo, either way its not in your hands what the teammate plays.
And yeah, people did pick weird combos sometimes, but they often made it work.
3 Likes
Honestly, with each passing day, OW2 declining, Microsoft buying Blizzard and OWL dying, i dont think it impossible for 6v6 to come back in some kind of way.
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I disagree. Tanks are strong enough that if you are good at them you can make it. Unless balance is so bad (like they butchered Hog, release Zarya) that there is nothing you can do. Balance is fixable with numbers usually so they could do that. There were patches of OW2 where every tank was pickable and decent. Just because someone picked not the absolute best but another decent tank doesn’t mean it’s auto L. For example Doom and Ball are usually tanks only pickable for people who know what they are doing with them because they have difficult mechanics. But if you know what you are doing, you can play them into pretty much anything but hardcore CC with Sombra.
With OW1 it was like 1 hero split into 2, D.Va covers a ton of Winston weaknesses and vice versa. Zarya feeds energy off Rein and Rein can swing more. Orisa pulls, Hog Hooks. Stuff like that was extremely strong.
Try playing Winston into a Hog or Dva
Try playing Rein into Orisa or Ram
Try playing Orisa into Zarya
(The Scenario is that both teams are equally good)
etc. and these are just some i instantly thought about, skill plays a big role in how much you can win your matchup, but very often its just “This Tanks kit counters mine very hard, i have no value”.
And nerfing isnt always the solution, you nerf Orisa for example to make it easier for rein, but now she has an even harder time Vs. Zarya.
Im not saying 6v6 was perfect or that it was less frustrating to play with 2 Tanks who are not synergising instead of 1 tank who is inting, but it did not have that much counterswapping where you cant even ult 4 minutes into the game.
It really sucks that now more than ever you have to often play a hero that you didnt want to play to have a better shot at winning.
4 Likes