Congrats on nerfing DPS

General Discussion
1

DPS is the weakest class atm in high SR. I wonder why you would nerf Ashe and remove her 1 shot when she is a balanced hero in a vacuum. She is busted only when pocketed by Mercy.

You know who is also busted when pocketed by Mercy?

Old Widow (got a lot of nerfs in a row).

Phara Mercy

Echo Mercy

McCree Mercy (Cree got firerate nerf cuz of it)

pocketed Hanzo from s20-21.

Maybe it’s time to admit that the core issue with this game is that supports are a broken category?

Blizzard needs to stop catering to support care bears, it’s time support also starts taking skill to rank up.

Heroes like Mercy, Zenyatta, Baptiste are absolutely overtuned and very easy to play, they either heal too much or have too strong dmg AMP capabilities or both.

Enough nerfing DPS because of synergy with supports, of 5+ DPS picks are broken when pocketed by Mercy, the problem is Mercy, not Ashe.

And regardless of what patch notes say, the total DMG output of Ashe is NOT the same, because due to how reload works, now a full clip does less DMG with same reload, so her DPS got toned down for no reason.

I am not sure why you would even play Ashe now, she can just do a bunch of garbage dmg that will get healed and will be the only sniper without a 1 shot, without good shieldbreak, and so on. Literally after this nerf, any time Ashe is good, McCree or Hanzo are better.

Maybe nerf Mercy Rez or DMG boost (either one works, both are too strong on the same hero), and give Baptiste SEVERE nerfs (why wasn’t he nerfed this patch btw?) and the game might become fun again, the meta is being held hostage by supports, not by DPS.

8 Likes
3

She never had a one shot without Mercy. She still one shots Tracer.

Echo Mercy isn’t even used that often lmao. I hardly see Mercy pocketing a Echo

Literally no one complained about MercyCree. It was only about McCree. If that was actually true then Pros would be screaming at Mercy players for being busted

HANZO?? Literally he has not been spoken about for ages . Nothing about Hanzo except for maybe Storm Arrow damage buff/nerf :sob::joy::joy:

The projectile speed nerf wasn’t because of mercy lmao

9 Likes
4

agreed. Sad to see DPS getting nerfs after nerf because of Mercy.
Legit so sad and disgusting to see

1 Like
5

That seems like a good thing to me

4 Likes
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yea ashe was pretty much my main. i knew it was coming eventually tho, oh well if her gun starts to feel like a wet noodle ill probably start to main soldier or work on my mccree skills

im hoping its not a nerf that i will notice, hoping she will still will be fine but i doubt it

7

it’s used all the time in high SR, Echo Mercy is very dominant and busted in high elo and tank is very hard to play vs it.

Mercy + McCree is a slept-on combo but also very busted. Just many Mercy players don’t see the value of it and in low elo Mercy players never pocket McCree even when they would otherwise reluctantly pocket a Phara or Ashe because in their mind the only good thing about pocket is a 1 shot on Ashe or similar, but the +30% dmg on McCree is very useful also for shieldbreak and tank killing for example.

Hanzo is a top tier DPS right now. Definitely best non-hitscan DPS.

In high elo it’s like

Echo, Tracer, Ashe, Soldier

Then it’s probably Hanzo.

still now for example you can’t do combos like headshot + hipshot into the body, or bodyshot + bodyshot + hip. What’s the point of a sniper when they can’t 1 shot.

yep disgust is also my reaction.

as much as you could have the take that “snipers are unfun to play against” (and I sympathize with it, particularly when it’s more than 1 sniper, ideally the ideal meta has 0-1 snipers). What’s the point of having a sniper that can’t 1 shot under any circumstances I might ask?

Ashe’s DPS is very low otherwise, so why would you play a character with low tank killing potential, low finishing potential, and no 1 shot?

You just do a bunch of spam damage and charge support ults, after this nerf I think Ashe will be bottom 30% of DPS picks.

I tried her out. Pretty sure character’s unplayable in high elo now. For the reasons I listed above. Weak shieldbreak, no ability to get final blows unless the enemy misplays (and if you bet on the enemy misplaying to win games, you might as well play Bastion), weak mobility, very weak survivability.

The problem with giving 5 DMG nerf and buffing firerate is that:

  • messes up with muscle memory (in general they need to stop messing with firerates on hitscans, even if a specific hitscan is busted, they shoudl nerf anything BUT firerate as it requires you to re-learn the muscle memory around it).

  • total DMG output is still lower notwithstanding what Blizzard says because you do lower dmg per clip now (60 less) and you have a long reload time, you can do the math, overall in actual games this is like a 5% DPS nerf.

Ashe was always bad below Masters, now she will be bad always.

8

A lot of her damage comes from Dynamite, and was intended to be that way. When they did 7 buffs to her gun, they nerfed Dynamite

2 Likes
9

Long range damage and peaking denial (Like controlling an area from afar) imo

11

dynamite has a ton of counterplay and is not even that strong of an ability in high SR. It mostly punishes flanks and is a peeling tool, but otherwise for example if you think dynamiting 5 people is good, in high elo the trade is:

  • you dynamite 2 tanks and 2 DPS and gain let’s say 25-30% ult charge from it
  • Baptiste heals that with AoE and gains 30% ult charge from it. Lucio also gains like 20% ult charge from healing dynamite.

Since Bap and Lucio ults are stronger than Ashe ult, overall dynamiting 5 people is a bad trade for the Ashe though it might see you are doing a lot of dmg, all you are doing is charging support ults as you won’t get kills otherwise.

you can do this as Bastion also or Hanzo.

Ashe’s range is not long btw, she has a pretty punishing falloff.

Besides if there is no threat to be 1 shot (hell, now there is no threat of being headshot + hipshot combo even LOL!), why would you not peek an Ashe now. It’s pretty much always worth peeking an Ashe now, she needs like 4 shots to kill you.

2 Likes
12

BOB also is able to be used as an Ally.
A powerful ult isn’t solely just raw damage and CC. He has all the properties of an ally and 1200 health. It’s only useless if you use it at such a bad time or a enemy sombra.

Dynamite isn’t supposed to secure kills on its own. You’re supposed to follow up on it, especially now with .05 clocked off the recovery.

McCree had .08 removed from his recovery time. .05 is not something so little.

1 Like
13

yes lets cry about another slap on the wrist nerf to a still overtuned hero.

7 Likes
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The as he change is a buff lol.

15

I know this is controversial on forums, but I think BOB is not that great of an ult overall.

Ana sleepdart removes 50% of its value off the bat, and even if you run something like Zen + Bap, Zen discord + headshots gets rid of BOB in moments.

Really, the only time when BOB is good is when you run Mercy + Moira, or Mercy + Lucio, which I assume in low elo is a popular combo but in high SR it’s virtually never played.

the point I’m trying to make is that as DPS, your job is to secure kills and apply real pressure, not do some tickle damage that will get healed. McCree for example has the threat of rolling into your team and killing you, or playing an off angle. Ashe dynamite won’t even help you to get past a choke because healing is too strong in this game so if you think that thanks to Dynamite, enemy tanks will step back, you are wrong.

Sombra is not particularly good vs BOB. Hacking BOB is not a terrible play but not a high priority, either, in high SR. Typically the play vs BOB in high SR is either sleep him, or give a bit of space and melt him, then take space back with your own ults. He is still a 1200 HP immobile turret with a big head.

Regardless, BOB is OKish of an ult, the point I’m trying to make is that support ults are generally stronger than DPS ults pretty much by design in terms of how they influence winning or losing a teamfight.

16

Ashe deserved the nerf but yes mercy and zen need nerfs. Mercy is better than ana rn and ppl still ask for ana nerfs cuz they r pepege.

I think ashe tracer and some supports like zen bap mercy too need nerfs. Maybe even nerf ana if required.

1 Like
17

I don’t mind the Ashe nerf so much tbh because while she was one of my mains, I can flex to other DPS picks also like Echo, Tracer, McCree. But I’m fairly sure Ashe in a vacuum, without DMG amplificating abilities was actually very balanced, her “deal” was fair, high HS damage but never a kill, so if you peek her properly, technically you never die.

yep glad someone agrees on this, Mercy heals more than Ana per 10 minutes and has overall easier to use and more impactful abilities (DMG boost and Rez). Anti-nade is not that bad overall, I still think though Rez is stronger).

I think Tracer is balanced, yes she got “free” +3m falloff range but in truth this game has been powercrept and spam got buffed over the patches. As a Tracer main who plays since s2 I can tell you that in s2-s7 there was less spam, for example Torb had to build his turret to get to lvl 2, and Hog was weaker. Moira didn’t exist and so on, overall there were heroes that did less tickle/AoE dmg, for example Winston, Dva were meta and there was a period when 2x sniper was meta.

About supports, I would say:

Bap: big priority. Guy’s busted not sure why he didn’t get nerfed, apparently Blizzard thinks the cause of double shield is Sigma, which is partially true, Sigma is good always, but Bap is also good always, they are BOTH problematic.

Mercy: average priority. I hate that she has BOTH DMG boost and Rez. I’ll take either one, hell she could even have +50% dmg boost for all I care IF she had no Rez. Or a stronger Rez but no DMG boost would also be fine. It’s her mix really that makes her unfun to play against.

Zen: here I’m not sure, the guy is a Widowmaker in support slot definitely, in theory he is divable sure, in practice anti-dive heroes have become MUCH stronger compared to the last time dive was meta, specifically Torb, Reaper, Roadhog, Orisa. So here I am not sure, he is awfully designed (DPS hero in support slot) but you could make a case that he is balanced, only in the current state of the game his inbuilt weaknesses are impossible to punish.

18

Well you see. There are like 12.2k mercy mains on the forums and the biggest thread is of mercy so yeah, we are going to be raided.

People are super biased for mercy and brig here. Mercy for some reason idk but brig because they boosted by it. A lot of people got boosted by brig actually 2 of my own friends did one was bronze but with release brig went diamond and now currently in plat with brig.

Tracer is mostly balanced just needs fall off revert. The hero really is unstoppable (depends on skill massively which is why she shouldn’t get more nerfs than falloff) and fun fact torbjorn actually is a great pick to counter tracer. A lot of power creep is here but literally all dps got their power creep deleted and some even nerfed harder than their original state like doom. Im not saying doom needs any significant buffs just uppercut recovery revert to 0.2s.

She was but you see again the devs hesitate to touch mercy for some reason.

19

How are you going to use Ashe in GM (a high end) and use Phara/Mercy as a comparison, when Phara/Mercy is almost non-existent in the same grade as you are using to compare? Phara/Mercy is a low-tier problem.

That is not a fair comparison in the least and for me takes away a lot of validity in your post… Do not try to fabricate a false-image.

1 Like
20

Increasing skill for support also means increasing the reward. I doubt people could handle that without whining for nerfs.

4 Likes
21

yeah I agree, it is what it is I guess. Mercy is probably roughly balanced overall, the thing about her is how she’s always either meta or close to meta, right now meta is Bap Zen but Mercy Zen is also a very playable combo on ladder and essentially equivalent to Bap Zen.

Doom needs a buff, only DPS taht is worse in the game is Bastion atm.

Phara Mercy is actually a big pain in the *** to deal with in high SR and requires both good tank and support play to shut down as DPS. Phara is just a very boring hero and not many people main her, she still takes some aim but not loads.

People who think Phara Mercy is only good in low elo are rly delusional, I am masters and I see Pharmercy smurf duos all the time, they generally win.

support should be the role with least carry potential for the simple reason that it’s also the easiest role. It doesn’t require you to take risks and you are holding M1 on tanks a good chunk of time.

Currently in GM+, support is the carry role, first patch it surpassed even tank in terms of playmaking potential, while also being a super easy role.

22

Then give me a Tracer and Widow variant with the near the same values. Healing headshots, large aimed burst healing, massive mobility.

1 Like