I would like to suggest that Blizzard make the Role Queue mode of Competitive Solo Queue only. Groups could still queue for competitive in the Open Queue mode.
This would eliminate from Role Queue a number of toxic behaviors:
Thrower full stacks
Paid carries
Groups ganging up on and verbally abusing solo queue teammates
I think this would be easier to create balanced games and the SR numbers would be more accurate over the long run.
Groups could then go into Open Queue competitive and play whatever roles and team makeups they want. Those of us that like the structure and consistency of Role Queue can have games that are more even and fair.
It’s basically impossible to fairly place a group in a match that has a 1000 SR range.
Why shouldn’t people who want to play with friends and have fun have a separate system from those who want to climb and improve their skills? Maybe there should be actual official teams that get a team SR instead of adjusting the SR of the individuals? That’s almost another topic though.
Well, I didn’t spend a ton of time on this post, so hopefully it’s not too incoherent or rambling along clumsily. What are your thoughts? Is it worth the problems that are present to be able to queue with other people?
Support the solos and maybe duos queue and keep the 3+ to their own.
I think it hidden tries this anyways, but suffers the classification errors you speak of (actual flist premades vs. WeJustMet stayasteam pugs). They should really just match around SR and drop the MMR 50/50 rigging; it only serves to ruin game integrity.
You are absolutely onto something for OW2. A kind of LFG2.0 or Clan system or even Team roster would make things enjoyable to anyone relying on other humans for stuff.
Not based on my experience. Groups are the biggest introduction of chaos in matchmaking. Just because my team has a group of 4 doesn’t mean they are actually good at playing together. Especially if one team has a group of 4 random LFG people who have never played together, but the other team has 4 people who communicate well and know each other. Groups just can’t be estimated properly for matchmaking.
What do you mean? What your experience? We dont have splitted player base to group and solo queue so how can it be your experience?
You have to realise that matchmaker is having issues to create balanced games even now already as player base is shrinking. If every elo will have lower player base because you till have two separated queues, you dont have such a big player pool to pick players from it. Your options are limited. And games will have bigger gap in skill between players.
There are already two* queue systems. Role Queue and Open Queue. I’m just asking to change the rules so that Role Queue is Solo Queue only, and Open Queue remains the same, becoming the only place people can take a group into competitive.
I find the most frequent cause of imbalance to be grouped players. I think the matchmaker will work BETTER when it’s only trying to find places for single players into fair matches.
Honestly, I think LFG for Comp is actually a horrible idea. If I had my preference and could be an Overwatch Dictator, I’d prevent LFG groups from even queuing for Competitive anything. I think LFG is completely fine for every other one of the queues other than the 2 comp ones.
(*) - There are technically 11 Queues right now, 2 Comp, 1 QP, 1 Experimental, and 7 Arcade queues. (speaking of which, Lucioball popped today, so I’m gonna be going and playing that!)
You mean by splitting groups off into open queue? It probably would balance out - open queue gets kinda dead sometimes so splitting people off like that might not be that big of a deal, honestly. It would drive interest in the mode though, for sure.
It could actually make 222 have a faster queue as the people who want to group (mostly DPS looking for faster queues) to be pushed into open queue where they could get matched quicker.
In all honesty this might actually be a positive change for everyone involved.
Of course it feels dead sometimes. People like to play role q more from obvious reasons. Open q sucked and thats why it was replaced by role q. This idea would force players who want to play with friends into open q. I dont like it.
You could also go into QP or in OQ you could just play 222.
The overwatch developers seem to be against forcing solo queue for comp so you don’t particularly have to worry about it, but you’re saying that it would increase queue times by splitting people into OQ or having them move to QP just to group with friends and that’s not essentially the case.
Is there any other reason you believe that having solo-only 222 comp would be detrimental other than “I don’t like it”?
The problem with LFG is that it’s 6 random people who have no experience with each other potentially facing a 6 stack that’s working with each other repeatedly. There’s no reason to have an LFG for Comp, every Comp game is basically already random people, and the matchmaker can make it even. Also, there’s no guarantee that LFG makes a 6 stack, so if I as a solo queue get put into the game with that 5 stack because someone left their group, the outcome is much more difficult for the matchmaker to make things correct.
Groups basically suck for the matchmaker. I don’t think group activity should impact individual SR, and groups should not be mixed with solo queues. In HOTS, there was either solo queue, or team queue. Team Size - 1 size teams were not allowed because there were no individuals to fill. You could do 2, 3, or 5 (because teams are 5).
The only reason I’m advocating for Open Queue to be allowed to keep groups is so that the option to play comp with friends doesn’t disappear. Also, when you’re playing with friends, the role lock is less beneficial.
In Kaawumba’s guide, he basically highlights the logic I’m speaking of. Poor synergy groups (AKA all LFG groups) suffer a penalty by grouping for Comp. They are taking a random group of people and matching them against groups of a similar size, which could also be LFG people, but also could be a 6-stack of a team that is scrimming in comp. The LFG group is actually lowering their chances to win by grouping.
In summary:
Either Solo Queue OR Group with Friends for Comp. LFG doesn’t help Comp at all, it can only make it worse.
Ideal Situation: Solo Queue and Team Queue (no solo) as separate things. No reason to have Role Queue in Team Queue, so Open Queue makes sense.
I am sure it does try but for how many times I have been on an all solo team vs a 5 and 6 stack or even against 2 3 stacks etc. in open queue is mind boggling. I am sure I get stuck on all solo teams vs 5 and 6 stacks in role queue too but since Blizzard hides it I obviously can’t say for certain.
@OP I wish they had an all solo queue. I don’t think Role Queue should only be solo though as groups should still be able to play it but to just make a separate queue for solos only would be awesome.
The fact that groups breaks the system being something you don’t like, is evidence that the system is in fact broken.
Which is what 90% of the people here have been saying.
The matchmaker cannot rig the game against your team, and therefore cannot find players that can match your group’s level of competence. Rendering any metric of player performance-as-placement moot.
The only way it can do this is by manipulating your team, which it cannot do because you’re in a group.
The groups introduce variables into the system that MMR does not predict as well. They recognize this openly. There is nothing in MMR that reflects a group’s synergy or how often they’ve played before.
This is nonsense. There is no such thing as rigging it against your team.
The matchmaker tries as best it can to make the two teams have groups of equal size while also evening out the MMR of the two teams in order to make the two teams as fair as possible. There’s information missing from the model, which is why LFG in Comp is a negative. Premade groups should play against premade groups, and the performance of those teams should not influence the MMR / SR of the individuals, because it is different than the matchmaker.
You use nonsensical language. There is no rigging. There is only statistical modeling of the outcome in an attempt to find a fair game as fast as possible.
You’re complaining about an element of a system that is unable to effectively counter another element of the system. You’ll defend the matchmaker, yet cry bloody mary when you can’t beat a 6 stack?
It’s more of a gotcha, in the full context of being hypocritical.
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Or better, yet. I’ll say it like most of the matchmaker knights here say it.
“You should be able to provide value to your team at the skill level you’re matched with. Otherwise it’s your fault for not providing enough value for your team to win.”
I’m not blaming groups on my inability to climb. I’m blaming groups for making games harder for the matchmaker. I benefit from good groups as frequently as I am harmed by bad groups, so it all balances out, but the games are more fun when they are more balanced and even.
I’m most happy when it went 99% - 99% for three rounds in a row whether I won or lost. Games that are balanced are the best, and I think they would more frequently be balanced if it was 12 solo queue people in the game.
I don’t even trust my friends for Comp. If I want to play with friends, I QP or Arcade… Sometimes custom games.
