Right, so you’re asking for what changes could be made to encourage people to continue playing. Several people now have pointed to Role Queue and you come back with “well that’s just now how the game is made”
You cannot ask for change and then complain that people are making suggestions which are different to how the game is now.
Would role queue really add a sense of progress though? It may or may not improve the quality of some matches no doubt; but then we have LFG for players to opt into that, and certainly in the EU that has been an absolute failure.
1.Blizzard could using hidden criteria (Not SR) select and award 10 players in every tier. Like best Bronze healer season 14.
2.In-game tournaments. Though literally 0 idea how to protect it from Smurfs.
3.Clan system and clan rankings.
T500 OWL team. Using hidden criteria (Again, not SR and winrate), pick 6 players (222) and send them to OWL as representatives of the… losers lol
Official stat reset option (Even paid one). It resets all your stats except for MMR (You run through placements to reevaluate your mmr), level and all in-game items.
I think many things could be and must be done.
Yes, keep player desire in mind, it is a very important motivational factor that gets messed around with like it doesn’t matter in this game.
In the present situation if you want to get good at Rein right now how do you go about it? Learn in quickplay? (lmao). Get level 25 and go on into comp. You get a group with 5 DPS mains, one of them goes support begrudgingly and you have no off tank. Your heals suck because the healer is on Ana mostly DPS’ing. No one will stand behind your shield because they’re too busy fragging out; you get run over all game long, but DPS doesn’t care. Tracer has gold elim’s don’t you know!
Net result: DPS enjoyment is barely affected, support has had an abysmal game with awful stats trying to keep 1 tank up with no resources while chasing DPS players around who are yelling about how he’s a trash healer because he’s not able to keep everyone alive. The tank spent the whole match getting bullied and having no resources if he’s not already turned off the idea of tanking he will be when this happens a few more times. To top it all off the support and tank players would have lost the most SR because they were completely unable to perform their roles; what a well thought out system.
Tank quality and consistency will improve dramatically because tanks will be able to get groups with the support they need. There’s no shortage of people complaining about how much main tanking sucks right now.
The fundamental misunderstanding of what is needed to make a team work; combined with the incredibly selfish nature of gamers is what necessitates this structure.
I don’t think that would change when the key advice thrown out by so many high levels players is stuff like this:
It’s not really about winning.
You’re right, it’s not about winning. It’s about improving yourself. Winning is secondary.
But again, I feel we just have too differing of mentalities to ever come to an agreement. I have heard all of your arguments, and more, before. I still do not agree with them.
Edit: Apologies, I just realized you quoted me from a different thread. I haven’t read through enough of this thread to comment. Again, sorry.
What’s wrong with his advice? this literally is the only thing presently within your control. I’ve never argued against working on your own game. Outside finding a 6 stack no much else you can do. This advice will extend to a role queue situation as well, but you’ll have the added bonus of always getting a good team structure to play within and thus a great environment for learning the game. Most of gold doesn’t even know why you need tanks, they’re just big DPS right?
My argument is also not about winning, it’s about increasing the quality of games so more people have a positive experience playing this and don’t want to quit because every team lacks proper resources.
Put a different way I have had losses with good fellas in a group working toward the common glory but it didn’t pan out. Fellas say GG and we part our separate ways, no one is happy about losing but everyone tried their best and we had a chance to win because our team wasn’t handicapped by 4 dps mains out of the gate. These games you lose but you’re pumped to get in there and give it another go cause that was fun, that’s overwatch. If competition is only about winning you’re going to be disappointed. If you’re dummying people so bad you always win, that’s not competition; that’s the house league superstar effect.
I have had wins where my team are at each other’s throats (have been since hero select) for no reason other than inability to play what they wanted. We win, usually someone resorts to hollering obscenities as loud as they can into the mic. I then sit and stare at the queue button like “why would I do this again?”
The problem is situation 2 is more common than situation 1 by a large margin.
You can’t fix people’s attitudes, or perception. But very VERY few people see a 2-2-2 and tilt immediately and this is because it’s common knowledge that this is a good composition with a win condition that doesn’t require the stars to align and the baby Jesus to descend upon your team.
It’s not though, because 2 off tanks and 2 off healers isn’t a good composition, people understand this; but they’re focusing on their own game so that is, with unerring frequency what you will get. Same as when you get Junkrat and Reaper against Pharah and Ana. They haven’t a hope in Hades of getting close enough to kill anything; but still they’ll persist - but with role queue, as a Tank I won’t have recourse to fix the problem with Widow. That doesn’t improve the game for me, I literally at that point have to sit it out rather than try to do something.
Sure, they aren’t necessarily “forcing” you to do anything; however, as business, I’m sure they aren’t too quick to address it and find a viable solution.
They’re making money off of it at the end of the day. When you feed into that kind of system, as a buyer, you are rewarding them for their neglect of the game.
My challenge is going up in rank, and passing that barrier of where blizzard thinks i am. It is a progress system, because everyone can and will improve if they actually want to.
No, people do not largly believe that 2-2-2 is a bad composition this is simply false.
In the current situation how do you clutch out a game when you get a Reaper/Sym/Doomfist/Junkrat/Mercy one trick on your team? The other team has well balanced people who all will flex and counter you the whole game. You will never be able to win every game you play no matter what system is put in place
No one has suggested role queue is a utopia that will remove all bad games and abolish 1 tricks, the idea is to limit the awful compositions people need to deal with. More quality games; don’t reply to me with another example of how if you get a team full of 1 tricks you might lose, this isn’t proof of anything but why 1 strict 1 tricking in a game about counter picking is cancer.
But it’s human nature, you are not fixing it without putting very punitive measures in place that you, yourself would probably be against because they’re not “fun” enough or something
That’s not what I said. Moreso the problem is that people misinterpret it, intentionally or not, and clearly overrate it significantly.
You don’t, but the reality is that those compositions are far less common than Zarya/Roadhog/Zen/DPSMoira/TwoRandomDPS. That isn’t a composition that’s any easier to clutch out, especially against a sensible opposing composition. Or even Rein/Zarya/Reaper/Junkrat/Moira/Ana against a Pharmercy combo isn’t going to get anywhere either.
Role queue is more likely to result in those kinds of comps just replacing the 4 DPS or whatever; and won’t give the Tanks/Supports the flexibility they need to try to make up for it by picking a hybrid or straight up ‘other kind’ of DPS that the DPS didn’t choose, and still refuse to switch to, to start with.
If you want idealised compositions, the tools are there in LFG, just expect to wait.
The is far, far too much nuance and variety, especially in the DPS category to simply lock things down to 2-2-2. That is only going to increase as the hero pool increases.
I’m not sure how it matters if people reason for tilting is valid to you or not, the fact is they tilt and this is the overbearing reason why.
If you know people misinterpret this, than you KNOW it happens and just feel like teams imploding at hero select is fine as long as you can play whatever you want. I disagree and I think it’s on blizzard to stop putting people on teams who all want to do the same thing.
Two off tanks a zen and DPS moira are not common comps. Zen is not a common pick in gold and neither is roadhog in my games.
I’d also wager most of the time you get these crap tank picks because these are DPS players and they don’t want to tank or know how.
Conjecture, you have no idea what role queue is likely to result in. Where’s the data that backs this nonsense up. You’ll likely find people are much more cooperative when they’re able to find more games where they can actually play what they want.
No it’s not, as they increase the hero pool locking down to 2-2-2 makes more sense. Each hero you add increases the potential number of combinations significantly making balance harder to achieve with every hero. As they start to introduce heroes with similar abilities (Brig and Lucio - Aura healing) you start to see imbalances, really unhealthy meta’s and calls for nerfs which will imbalance these heroes when they are unstacked.
A bad compostion is a bad composition. It’s very easy to make a bad 2-2-2 composition. Especially when people think merely picking a hero is adequate coverage for the role they’re playing. If it means significantly shorter queue times; they will go DPS Moira/Ana to do that.
It’s entirely possible to make passable 1-3-2 compositions, especially in Silver and Gold; it’s equally easy to make good 3-3 or 3-1-2 compositions. That’s why it doesn’t tilt me. What tilts me is just bad compositions, irrespective of who’s picked what role.
Again, if queues are shorter, you are going to get this; and a DPS or Support isn’t going to get to switch to fix it. As it is, I usually main off tanks, so do plenty of other people - so again, it doesn’t really help anyone when we show up even as two willing off-tanks. Or do you suggest breaking it down that far?
with role based SR DPS moira/DPS ana will lose games and de-rank. They won’t be a problem for long.
I don’t tilt either, but I’m tired of teams full of people who do. I’m also tired of teams that are worthless because the comp is awful and people on the team don’t know it’s awful (because game knowledge is hugely varied in gold).
Right but with role based SR they can’t just do placements with their DPS character and then join that SR with the tank to jump the queue. They have to go play placements with a tank, and now they play at their tank role SR and if they play poorly they will continue to de-rank (quickly if they’re throwing). Like they should. The important part of role based SR is you are punished for playing your role like crap.
So you can now focus on being great in your role and plugging any gaps you have in your game. 1 tricks can play what they want and they will be punished with longer queue times (because the system is going to work to avoid putting multiple 1 tricks on the same team).
I was able to go up a rank in solo queue, so that was my big goal. I have the gold weapon on Mercy, Tracer, and Widow who are my top 3 favorites. There is really no reason for me to continue comp. I find it really enjoyable when there’s good teamwork. But the bad things like leavers or throwers are frustrating. I hope they can find some improvements or a new feeling to comp
Having SR ratings for 3 roles. To encourage people to try to become more flex players.
Their role SR wouldn’t limit them, but just be info/feedback to give people something to work on.
This would discourage $murfing accts though…so it will never happen.
This may be out of place, but i felt like it might add to the conversation, feel free to flag if you want, i still love you.
This season my placing matches put me in gold on my alt account (on xbox, i havent gotten to comp on my main yet, i know weird right?) and i deranked, because i had horrible games, mostly my fault cause trying to play healer and flex to what was needed on xbox and i suck in that platform. So im now silver, so i talked to a friend and informed me that i should not flex because apparently the system thinks youre a detriment to your team if you do that below diamond, so i took on rineheardt because that was what was needed after everyone else had selected, and i found something amazing, people on that rank are amazing, we are not amazing players by any extent, but the camaradery that i felt was the best, the two healers did their best to keep everyone alive and well and i and the zarya did our best to cover their backs while they rezzed someone or healed up the 12 year old main genji (not joking he actually told us he was 12, and our fatherly istincts kicked in, all 24+) who kept overreaching and escaping when health got too low. And after a few mess ups we started synergizing and enjoying the game, we staked (except for the other Dps who felt our way of playing was bad, not his words, but then again the forum wont let me post exactly what he said or how he said it) and started wining some games, we played like 5 or six, i groaned at the third consecutive CP map, i hate them, and we all had a blast, we even arranged to play again this weekend, work and school prevents it during the week days.
Anyway, my point is, i thought rank mattered, but it doesnt… i had fun, and i´ll take my silver games over the gold or even plat (which i once got to once) every time.
Any criticism i got on the competitive system is that i wanna be able to flex and that the computer dont think im throwing, but as i said i dont really care.
I warned you this post was not helpfull, but simply an experience i had.
Cheers,
Santi
With playing less and hitting diamond consistently the last few seasons, I kinda lost my drive to grind at this game. I’m not sure anything could bring it back. I certainly don’t want them to add rewards, as that would only get more casual players trying it to get them, and they stink up the place enough doing their placements for their gold weapons during the last week.
I think you hit a point that match quality is important. If it’s bad, people will generally feel less bad about making it worse.
It’s like vandalism, littering etc; it tends to be worse in ‘less loved’ areas.