I don’t want to bring any hate to people who make suggestions for tanks buffs because I think it’s generally good when people think about balance changes, even if I disagree with then. However one thing I always notice about suggested tank changes (which I’m also guilty of) is that they very often involve increasing their dps. This is ok imo but sometimes It kinda goes against community outcries that dmg is too high and tanks die so fast. I’m sitting her with a confused face like what do you expect will happen then if you increase tank dps? Idk if the expectation is that tanks will never attack other tanks but it’s odd to me some don’t realize increasing tank dmg will make tanks die faster lool
And this is where community hatred for 5v5 really confused me. Removing one tank will make tanks survive better since that’s one less dmg source. I know some will choose to disbelieve this because they think a second tank adds this insane level of protection but it’s not as big as you think. The devs even confirmed this when they explained their reason for nerfing healing for OW2. They found with one less dmg source on tanks combined with tanks recieving basically double the healing, they were surviving more, not less.
I think for 5v5 tanks will do fine. The concern for me (which is extra concerning since I see no one discuss this) is that supports will be the new bottle neck for dps queue times. Where a solo tank might survive on extra hp and their abilities, supports I think will be far more vulnerable without that extra protection. I think flankers especially will need some serious nerfs otherwise support will feel miserable.
Yep, this is exactly what will happen. Add in the CC reduction, and you lose more defense vs flankers, and PvE will make them lose more support players on top of that.
So they will try to get them to play more like DPS, which will give you the choice of “DPS or bad DPS” as your choice of roles. So what support players they did manage to keep will also leave.
They will bottleneck the game crazy hard.
Playing support will be a horrible experience outside of PvE. The queue times are going to get crazy.
I think we could hit an hour long DPS queue time for comp, I think we could hit that easy.
Do people really ask for doing more damage? I thought the main issue here is that tanks die in 2 seconds without counterplay. More damage is not gonna make someone survive longer when you pretty much 100 to 0 within a flashbang over Rein’s shield with 2 players shooting at him. Even Winston ults can melt within seconds and that’s 1000hp.
I cannot stress enough how useful it could be if they made Mei’s endo blaster affect abilities movement speed by a certain amount, then she could be a perfect answer to flankers or anyone with insane mobility without hard countering them thus helping supports. This slow effect could persist for a few seconds making blinks, dash, glide etc range smaller if used during that period of time
I am still skeptical of the tank changes in OW2. Yes tank could possibly survive longer, but I doubt it. Remember they are also adjusting the tanks defenses like dropping Rein shield Hp. Then healing will also be reduced significantly.
Tank need supports like an IV Drip just to function.
In addition their over arching goal is to increase the speed of fights.
Now solo tanks can be buffed, but will they we will see.
Tanks/Brawlers in OW2 should be made more self reliant.
I think the concerns about 5v5 tanking and support bottlenecks are all super exaggerated given not a single person has tried it yet and nobody knows what they’ve done with it
I’m still waiting for the day when the “damage creep” crowd is faced with the harsh reality that the so called damage creep is caused mostly by supports and tanks like sigma, bap, orisa, hog, zen and dva, who all do significantly more trash damage than their launch versions.
Other than sigma ofc, who had insane dps uptime from minute 1.
I don’t know about other people, but when I’m a tank I find that my most common targets are the enemy tanks (except when I play Winston, because imagine chewing through that much sustain with a tickle gun).
Sigma, Hog and DVA are all op right now and people on these forums say tanks are weak.
Flankers will be fine unless they get rid of CC then they’ll be completely broken. Support is the easiest role in the game, there’s no lack of supports.
The thing that keeps me from playing support is the queue times, they’re almost the same as dps.
I always laugh a little when people try and complain that we need to cater more to supports because we need them for queue times. Like… my queue for support is 8 minutes to the DPS’s 10 minutes. We’re almost the same for queue times, lack of support players isn’t an issue.
I think a lot of this has to do with inconsitency in their weapons than the dmg numbers themselves.
Like i get tanks shouldnt be fat dps.
But the issue even the best dpsy tank hog is actually dpsing on a gimmick.
Without hook his dmg is just inconsistent to the extent any squishy will come and give you a belly rub once they bait out their hook.
This is the biggest issue with tanks, they should be strong in their zone.
Like hogs shot gun should blast the head off anyone rubbing his belly. But it only does that to other tanks due to the spread and requires hook for squishies.
Same with dva the only range she is good at is so short and even there she is not good enough.
Rein only after his current 85 dmg buff is good in his range.
I havnt really seen that many people asking for more damage for tanks, I’m not sure where this idea comes from. As for tanks in 5v5 we have seen how they play when blizzard had teams test it out, and from what we saw tanks died fast and had a lot of trouble actually making it into the fight to engage.
Right now tanks get blown up so fast the meta has become Hog/Ball/Sig because these tanks can actually do something with range or mobility.
I don’t think tanks die fast. I think that the majority of players force every tank that isn’t Brawly to brawl. And when they do that, they play terribly and they die.
I also think that, that is the fault of tank synergy.
The biggest problem I have with tanking is either you play Roadhog or Ball and kill things. Or you play Orisa, and you don’t get to kill much. You just spam. Or Rein who only gets to kill things once in range.
I want to kill more things on tank and that’s why I don’t like playing it.
I think buffing defensive abilities slows the game down and gives us comps like deathball, double shield and brawl which is why I never would buff those. I believe the only solution to fun tanking is literally making them DPS with lower damage but defensive abilities and high healthpools.
I feel that right now balance changes can go wild and try to make heroes fun with number changes to help queue times. It’ll all be gone come OW2 and if a change is particularly bad it can be immediately pulled.
But I don’t expect that much effort lol. It’s too much for them at this point.
The entire game has been slowly being degenerated and broken down by trying to turn every tank into brawlers and every support into a DPS with some healing on the side.
Literally none of those comps are inherently problematic, and the issue has always been that either they are symptomatic OR the DPS that are supposed to counter them are underpowered or nearly useless for several reasons.
Because they are right and its a minority of Hog players that dont just play fat one shot flanker simulator while their team struggles.
I have played for years and one out of 20 Hogs are out there turning around to hook Reapers or Tracers killing his supports. The number is probably lower now, since tank-minded players have kinda just left the game by droves.
The same applies to Dva and Ball to a lesser extent.
Ah yes the FPS with a magical ninja and a time travelling mosquito with insane mobility. Totally on brand for FPS games, together with the selfhealing 600hp oneshot dispenser.
After 3-4 years of literally breaking the game through nerfs, buffs and awful reworks, driving out most of its playerbase in the process, thats a very easy thing to claim, no?
Ok but it is still an FPS.
Curiously the heroes you mention are some of the most popular within their roles.
Perhaps because they shoot things and get kills?
“breaking”
it’s in a pretty good state right now and a lot of the reworks have been pretty successful despite what some people think.
A lot of the reworks are considered bad because they released OP (not reflective of actual design) or because they aren’t what some players wanted (like Sym).