Yeah uh, I guess since I’m on and the replies aren’t too insane right now, I’ll lend in some input.
When I made this post I was basically just ranting, and I realize I might’ve made a few contridictions in my post.
Really, I just was talking about the type of posts I see that basically kinda attack DPS players that sent me on edge. It’s not fun how the forums seem to kinda treat DPS players as this cancer that infects the game. It’s really discouraging to see posts like; “Haha! Enjoy the queue times DPS!” And I was just kinda fed up with it.
I feel like if they were gonna inplement role queue they should at least bump it up to 4 heroes a year to make the other roles more engaging imo. The only characters I really play outside of DPS are off tanks.
I do understand that people shouldn’t really demand queue times to be fixed, but they still have a right to complain about it at least. The fact I see some posts basically saying DPS players have no right to complain or whatever is kinda annoying. I just really hate the idea that some healer/tank mains on here think they have the right to kinda talk down on DPS players, which is why I made this rant in the first place.
I do feel that Blizzard is kinda at fault a bit though, as they should’ve bumped up to 4 heroes a year to balance at the roles for role queue.
The reality is that dps players CHOOSE to play the most popular, and therefore least needed role. Overwatch needs an equal amount of DPS to other roles to create a match, but there are x3 (I don’t know the actual number) the amount of dps players compared to tanks and supports.
No one should be surprised that they are going to have to suffer longer queue times. There is no good fix for it, and this has been a persistent problem since the dawn of damage dealing roles VS others. It’s just the reality of it. The longest queues at the faire are at the most popular rides.
I agree, which is why I’ve made a point of not responding to them directly. It’s unfortunate that so much of the thread has been derailed by them, but I digress…
Frankly, I think the solution to disparity in queue times is just to increase the options available to tanks and supports. Perhaps rework Mei into a tank (since she would need minimal changes to fit into that role, so a “rework” would be more like a few number changes). One of the issues right now is that even if all heroes were equally popular, DPS still have over twice as many heroes as Tanks or Supports, so the onus is on Supports and Tanks to be more interesting and popular than DPS. I think they actually are, for the most part, but not enough to offset the roster imbalance that exists. Providing more Support and Tank options, particularly ones that feature characteristics that DPS players find appealing in their hero selection, would be a good way to address this (i.e. for people who like the flight mechanics of Pharah, perhaps adding a flight-focused support [Echo, anybody?] would encourage them to try out Support more).
At the end of the day, though, it is an issue with DPS that the DPS queue is so long. While Blizzard did restrict it and make that queue time more apparent, there was always a de facto queue time that was principally placed on flex players, with a major detriment in that if people wanted to bypass that queue time, you wound up with a sub-optimal comp that punished other players on your team. The benefit of RoleQ is that it places that queue pressure entirely on the DPS players. That is… frankly more fair, I think.
I entirely agree with this statement, though, as a long time DPS main:
Is it Disney World’s responsibility to do more than put up a sign that says “expect a 45 minute wait from this point for this ride”?
I mean there are real world logistics that you can’t just wish away. Even Disney World would have an easier time putting up a 2nd or third ride.
Here you depend on the other users to get a complete game in the Main Game mode, so unfixable really until the user population takes a “greater good” approach there will always be a long wait time for what is more desired.
Blizzard has provided a DM mode where you can just dps to your heart’s desire, it is not their fault if you do not use it. On top of that the old system still exists in Arcade for QP.
I think waiting long times to play is not something nice, but maybe trying new roles you will find exciting playstyles with other heroes as well. I am a support player, but the incentives that came with the RQ made me want to play more tanks, and guess what? I have a lot of fun playing Zarya and now Sigma.
Yeah, rants on the forums can really turn out badly. Understand your intentions, but honestly this is par for the course.
I think those comments are the Tank and Support mains who were told to just “DEAL WITH IT” in the old system by DPS mains who were also Anti-2/2/2 people. So the “vengeance” that is lashed out kind of have collateral damage mixed in.
Now it is mostly (I feel) is directed at those DPS mains that complain about Queue times and don’t acknowledge that they contribute to the problem. Basically it is “I like the popular thing, so accommodate me.” that is very selfish attitude to have.
Honestly, when you look at RQ based games, this is normal. DPS will always be popular because people want to do the most damage and feel like they are carrying the group/team on their backs. So, not really anything Blizzard can do to fix the long queue times for DPS, but they can make it worse. Next hero that is DPS comes out and looks interesting will spike Queue times significantly.
I can get that. For me personally I just really don’t find supports or main tanks fun. Playing Rein is really unfun to me, playing any supports just also feel really unfun. DPS is the only role that I feel like I can have fun in, minus some off tanks.
Before they add another DPS I feel like they should fill up the other roles though. Like if we got 4 supports one year, 4 tanks the next year, 4 supports again, and repeat until the others are just as filled as DPS it would be at least a bandaid because there would be a lot more variety in the other roles.
My issue is that the variety you are offered as a dps is unparalleled. It’s such an insane range of heroes between Doomfist, Widowmaker, Mei, and what have you. The way you play the game varies wildly depending on what dps heroes you pick.
Other roles are significantly more bound to a specific playstyle. Main tanking is a good example. Playing Rein and Orisa is very similar, and I’d argue Winston is not far off. Wrecking Ball is unique, but that’s just one of the already small selection.
I’m really enjoying Sigma, and my skillset lends itself mostly to tanks and supports, but sometimes I just HAVE to play dps to shake it up and not have it feel too one dimensional.
Then again, the fault probably isn’t even in design, but rather in the core philosophy of the roles. Damage dealing is just naturally an easier sell, and has more variety by default.
That doesn’t make too much sense as if a Bronze is in a Gold game with no duo queue partner, you will lose as that person ability is significantly lesser to those they are with and cause a loss in most cases, those cases weren’t the main targets for flexing though it helps a lot.
Since flexers are the minority, chances are you wouldn’t be boosted to ranks you didn’t deserve as you wouldn’t meet many flexers and often times switching isn’t enough.
This is because each role is reliant on the other, so if you have a bad tank, you will lose. Same with DPS and Support. This is the set up with Role Lock, before you could have a chance of winning if someone wasn’t doing so well.
Flexing is primarily to make up for people choices and helps if someone is having an off day.
If you have players that pick say an Orisa and a Zarya, a flex player could switch with one of them to achieve synergy between their heroes which is far more important than how many of each role you have in a team.
All parties profit, as before, you could so something to increase the chance of winning for all people in your team, making it a win win. I find flexing much preferable than the feeling of uselessness I get when I see someone not hitting their shots as a hitscan or being a bad tank.
Overall, being able to flex is a huge boost to QoL.
What about a system that encourages (maybe enforces) flexing?
Which explains why most people pick DPS type of heroes. More fun when you can deal damage, see the big numbers, and see the major contribution to the team.
Personally, I more gravitate towards Support because it is the most crucial, and thankless role around. Which is funny because Support can make or break a team, yet they get crapped on the most (go figure).
I agree with this. I don’t think it will solve the issue of more people wanting to play DPS style heroes, but it can’t hurt anything either (in theory).
It’s no individuals choice of playing DPS that makes the queue times long.
The only fault lies in the game design, making DPS the most desirable role to play within the player base.
But instead of people going “huh, why don’t they make the other roles more appealing to play?” you people (especially those that think they’re still “flex” players) just screech and talk trash to each other instead of using your own critical thinking.
There’s a lot of presumption with this argument that the person that chooses to “flex” knows better than those that don’t. A hard pill to swallow is that a lot of people who think they can “Flex” actually can’t, and will drag the team down.
We don’t have any hard numbers as evidence, but let’s look at the cases where a game is going badly, and then all of a sudden it seems to be going even worse then one person on the team says “Hey, how come we only have one tank/one healer now?”.
We can file those kinds of situations under the banner of people who tried to “flex” but failed.
I agree with you, but God that was hard to read. I had to study it for like… at least a whole minute to realize what was being said. And even then… Great post though.
Fellow Support/Not Fellow Tank mains, stop trying to martyr yourself. You are doing something of your own accord. Don’t pin the blame on others.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~Gray, the 300+ hour support main . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
It’s no single individuals sole fault, but that individual is contributing the problem.’
How would you expect Blizzard to do this? As others have said here, even in other genres, people always go primarily for DPS, and DPS queue times are longer in every genre from MOBA to MMORPG.
What magic solution is Blizzard supposed to make for a problem that’s existed for decades?
People got bored of watching goats eh?..you should probably go look at viewership for stage 4 without goats then because it hasn’t improved AT ALL…(in fact it might be lower viewership since the change)
Goats has very little to do with why people don’t watch