Then what’s all this reasoning that makes arguments that only cite GM pickrate?
When I say Genji in all ranks, that includes GM.
When I cite the pickrate in all ranks, that is including GM.
They are only citing GM to prove a point, that IS cherry picking.
Of course a DPS has a lower pickrate than a Support.
There’s 7 support heroes competing for 2 support slots.
But there’s 17 damage heroes competing for 2 damage slots!
So the popularity going MASSIVELY up and down when he’s buffed and nerf is a massive coindicence?
That’s because there’s less supports for the same number of slots!
gm stats are the most relevant stats as they are the ones that play the game best.
no, they are citing gm because the devs balance top-down.
Then use the “all ranks” pickrate as All ranks includes GM.
Oh wait you ARE excluding despite your denials.
They shouldn’t.
They should balance for all ranks, they have an equal responsibility to everyone who bought this game and dedicated their time to play it.
if you use all ranks then most of the stats will be from mediocre players.
no, you just have horrendous reading comprehension.
top-down balance and fun for casuals are not mutually exclusive.
Treb did think that deflect should be stationary, I don’t really have too much against him I think he’s a chill person but I have to disagree.
I’ll never enjoy fighting Genji, but he got more of a nerf than anyone thought he would. The way I see it, that’s good enough.
Yes, but that is not the argument. The argument of OP is how often he sees Genji, not that dps pick rates are not even among dps heroes.
That’s different. A meta or op hero would have a high pick rate but heroes who have high pick rates are not necessarily meta or op. Case in point Mercy.
Explained above.
Anyway, Genji is seen 1 in 3 games. This is very normal considering his popularity, like Mercy.
No it will be exactly equally the stats from above average players as the stats from below average players.
Only by astronomical coincidence will it preserve the enjoyment of non-elite gamers because you’re literally ignoring how they play the game.
You blithely ignore the heroes they play even in aggregate.
And I can see the obvious straw man you’re going to pull “Oh so we shouldn’t look at any individual rank, now YOU want us to ignore data!” No, if you are going to look at the stats of a rank then you need to do the same for every other rank. You need to compare genji’s relative and absolute pickrate across each rank across time.
This isn’t very chill of you, you gave my idea without the reason why.
That’s clearly inflammatory, when you share what I said without including the reason (which isn’t inherently obvious) it’s inevitably going to make me look unreasonable.
Is like “I remember that mayoral candidate, he wanted to tear up the main road into town!” When the whole story is “that mayoral candidate wanted to tear up that road to replace it with a much harder wearing road to save costs in the long run”
That’s not your argument.
Genji IS the most seen DPS hero.
Not only is that nonsense, it’s a red herring.
I didn’t talk about meta, I don’t because people like you have a kakfaesque obsession with changing the meaning of words as and when it suits you as there’s not strict dictionary definition of “meta” as we use it in Overwatch you can warp it’s meaning to whatever you like to move the goalposts.
I referred to popularity and pickrate directly because it’s too hard to change that meaning.
No it’s not, overshadowing 16 other heroes by a wide margin isn’t the same as Mercy being the 3rd most popular hero out of only 7 heroes.
Ana and Moira have far FAR higher pickrate than Mercy. Mercy is almost right in the middle.
What a blatant red herring.
It’s not cherrypicking, it’s the only stats that are relevant when you’re speaking about balance since balance is done top-down as it should be, (I’ll explain why) but I can cite OWL pick & winrates instead if you prefer.
It’s pretty obvious why…
I’ll do what you suggest and see what happens
If I use all ranks this week Moira & Mercy are the 4th & 5th most picked heroes in the entire game. The other top 3 are Ana/Rein/Zarya. I guess they all need significant nerfs by your logic since they’re picked far more than most heroes. Last time Mercy & Moira were nerfed the forums exploded. Looks like you’re trying to start another fire
Lets also look at the least played in all ranks, because obviously they’ll need significant buffs. I’m seeing Echo, Mei, Doomfist, Tracer, Torbjorn, Pharah, Widow & Hanzo all in the bottom half of heroes in terms of pickrate. I guess they all need massive buffs? I’d be pretty amazed to see the forums calmly accept Widow, Hanzo, Tracer, Doomfist & Echo buffs.
Do you see what I’m saying? I think it would be very hard for you to convince me or anyone that all of those heroes need significant nerfs/buffs because of their pickrates in the “all” category. You don’t use the all category when it comes to determining actual balance, if you did, then Widowmaker would be buffed to shoot firestrikes because her pickrate only starts to really go up starting in Diamond
So…you’re just ignoring the fact that he was the #1 most picked hero in GM & had a 55-57% winrate & is now the 11th most picked hero, isn’t even the most picked DPS anymore (is going to be 3rd pretty soon behind Widowmaker) and his winrate has dropped to 52%?
His stats have plummeted. I don’t think you can prove that he’s OP. Both his damage and shuriken recovery time have been reverted…all he has kept is his deflect & RMB spread buffs, and we can see his stats dropping like a rock from what they were
It is.
No it’s not.
This is like opinion polls that only look at the opinions of the richest 1% people in a nation by the logic of “these are the most financially successful citizens, they are best at life so the economy needs to be balanced around them. A top down economy, trickle down economics if you will”.
That’s like citing the income of those invited to Davos.
Elitism.
No, they aren’t the “other” top 3.
They are the top 3.
You completely pointlessly emphasised the less picked heroes first.
The top 3 do.
Mercy does not as she has a pickrate is literally the closest to average for support heroes.
You must consider if and how Mercy is above average because the 4 support heroes below her are so unappealing. You don’t need to nerf mercy, you need to address all the people who would rather play zen but don’t because zen is so underpowered so default to Mercy instead.
Zen could do with a lot of buffs. His pickrate is abysmal, especially for a Support hero.
How did you miss Bastion?
Hanzo and Widowmaker are barely below average, they are the heroes
C L O S E S T to average pickrate!
That’s because you purposefully picked the heroes least deserving of buffs because they are literally the closest to average pickrate!
This is like suggesting all efforts to help the poor should go to those barely below median income while ignoring those with the lowest income.
You cherry picked the below-average picked heroes LEAST DESERVING of any buffs.
You should buff the heroes who have the lowest pickrate for their role and nerf the heroes with the highest pickrate for their role. But do it in a way that mostly favours the current lowest picked heroes when fighting the current highest picked heroes and doesn’t self-cannibalise.
Not only is it cherry picking to only look at the top elite, you should also be ignored because you switched the criteria half way through.
You switched from Genji’s popularity out of DPS to Genji’s popularity out of all heroes.
Genji has gone from only the number 1 DPS in GM to only number 2 damage hero. And again, this is elite gamers who are extremely fickle and prone to pressure to play the maximally optimal heroes to the disproportionate exception.
Number 2 of his category amongst elite gamers isn’t plummeted.
This endless hyperbolic exaggeration will only totally discredit you.
Sorry, didn’t mean to make you look dumb I apologize :(.
You are comparing 2 totally different things.
It’s not elitism, it’s logic. Are you suggesting that because Widowmaker has a below average pickrate that she needs buffs? Because she’s the 3rd most picked DPS in GM & it would put her through the roof if she was buffed.
Now you’re being inconsistent. Your logic behind Genji needing nerfs is his pickrate, but now that I bring up the pickrate of Mercy & Moira it doesn’t matter?
They have double the pickrate of Brigitte in the all tab, yet Brigitte is the most picked hero in GM. So who’s overpowered & who’s weak? Your logic doesn’t add up
I didn’t miss Bastion. I picked every DPS that has a below average pickrate that you wouldn’t be able to argue needs significant buffs. Tracer, Widow, Hanzo, Echo, Doom etc.
They’re below average on the all tab, but it’s a different story if you use the GM tab. See the problem? Same story with Brigitte. She is the #1 pick in GM, but on the all tab she’s near the bottom.
This is going to go nowhere if you can’t understand why the all tab is the worst tab to use in terms of determining balance
he isnt
he dropped from legitimately beeing ana level of pickrate to 3.73%
just play brig and help your team
That’s how analogies work…
It’s not logical.
You can’t just say it’s logical.
I’ve already told you why not. You’re repeating yourself.
“in GM”
Elitism.
No, I’m not contradicting myself, I’m contradicting the strawman that you created and falsely ascribed to me.
Gross oversimplification.
I’ve explained why and now you’re playing dumb.
“in GM”
Irrelevant illogical elitism.
Did you forget this:
You also picked Mei and Torb. They DO deserve buffs.
You’re ignoring me and repeating yourself. Stop this pathetic act.
Non stop illogical elitism.
Yes. Elitism and denial.
Of course I can’t you give NO REASON WHY!
You saying giving your opinion over and over again and scoffing that I don’t automatically agree with your opinion.
That’s GM, what are you obsessing over GM for to the exclusion of all other ranks?
Don’t fall for this elitism Magy.
I do not think you paid for this game to be a bugtester for an elite class of gamers, this isn’t the hunger games where only a tiny few who make it into GM count.
You matter just as much as any GM player. Any Top-500 player.
Don’t believe anyone who tells you otherwise.
Well the game in my opinion should mostly be balanced arround GM.
and outside of it…genji has always been a popular hero because he is a cyborg ninja and attracts all the weebs…so its kind of expected that he would still be seen.
i dont like genji either as much as the OP. but still, i dont want to fall into Anecdotal Evidence Fallacies, and try to cater the game to the chars i like
because otherwise id buff bastion and delete tracer widow and genji and call it a day
Is it?
Should it?
What do you have that the game is or should be balanced around a tiny tiny proportion of the playerbase other than anecdotes?
You don’t need to delete them.