He is crap already. If you can’t kill him or counter him… Entirely your issue.
Improve your capabilities of countering him.
I repeat: trash tier.
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Your refusal to understand proves nothing.
That’s because you don’t like it.
yes it does, you buff her in a way that helps below diamond.
Denials.
Your opinion is reality?
You have utter contempt for the difference between facts and opinions.
Not for any reason you can give.
Just conjecture and denial.
You clearly don’t understand what average means.
You did blithely ignore them, stop gaslighting me by claiming a clear fact is an assumption.
So only players in GM are players? What’s everyone else? unpaid bugtesters?
It doesn’t need to be consistent, you’re taking an average of a VAST population of players.
Exact same problems limiting to GM.
How can that be perfect when and even more representative sample of all ranks exists?
We’re talking about broad statistics here.
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I do know what average means.
nothing you replied with was factual.
oh also i forgot, that was what i think SHOULD be
this is what it is, quoting jeff kaplan
People are picking him because he’s fun.
You don’t understand how all of above average combined with all of below average is the entire set, by definition?
It shouldn’t be.
This makes you a glorified bugtester.
If masters and up wants a hero banned that’s extremely popular outside of masters/GM/OWL well too bad. You may have given them the money but you don’t matter.
You cannot support this then be surprised when the game is made objectively less enjoyable for you because you were outright told you don’t matter and instead of saying “no, we all matter” you said “yeah, screw me. Give the elites whatever they want, I’ll gladly take the scraps.”
EDIT: It’s just stupid to play around M/GM as we know that at that rank there are heroes who aren’t played at all due to fickle favouritism. How do you adjust for a hero who just has insignificant use?
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Screw the stats, I ALSO see him literally every single game lol.
What you’re not understanding is it has nothing to do with what either of us wants, what only matters is what is right, which is top-down balancing.
How would you do that without breaking her at the top level?
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i think this is the exact problem with balancing not arround GM/M.
in casual play, people play what they want, and if they dont like it, they wont play it.
in high rank people play what is good, therefore you know that if some hero (like ana) has super high pickrate, there is probably something to look at,
do you understand that less populated ranks won’t appear in the data of all ranks/players as much as more populated ranks?
every hero is played in gm but some are simply better picks. if the heroes you claim aren’t picked due to “favouritism” were any good, gm players would play them.
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You have no remotely rational reason why why that is right.
it’s pure elitism bias.
It’s what you want falsely passed off as logical.
Look at how she is powerful at the top level, look at how she is weak at the bottom level. Make changes accordingly.
They difference is they play what INDIVIDUALS want.
In the higher levels the demand for meta means you have to play what the other 5 people on your team doesn’t hate. One person can lead a rebellion against an “off meta” hero and the other 4 will join in, with the conceit that when they see a hero they don’t like the mob will return the favour.
Reaper’s pickrate was low, they buffed the hero to a decent pickrate, then nerfed him excessively and his pickrate fell low.
Reaper’s pickrate changed so much based on wildly inappropriate buffs and nerfs, and the only logical explanation is they were ignoring how most of the players were playing the game and only focusing on what a tiny elite wanted and they were content with Reaper being garbage and unused.
Oh no! Proportional representation! Can’t have that /s
No, there’s huge toxicity for playing off meta heroes at those ranks, there is such an intense desire to win and NEVER lose that there’s such excessive pressure to not try anything different.
No they wouldn’t because of the huge resistance to the presence of off-meta heroes, they get tilted from the start and pressure them to switch off.
You’re now allowed to be different.
It’s more important to conform than let viable heroes emerge.
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cant have that because that would result in mediocre play being the focus of balance. average players definitely play suboptimally so they aren’t a good measure of heroes objective value.
why? because those heroes aren’t considered strong picks.
such doesn’t last forever though. if a hero has a consistently low pickrate, its not because the players are too lazy/scared to experiment, its more likely that the hero simply isn’t worth running over the better options.
which is exactly why genji wasn’t played at all when he got buffed /s. as soon as a hero is good enough to be worth running over others, they become meta. things are off meta for a reason.
you are aware that in gm genji was an off meta pick? what happened when they buffed him? you have successfully deluded yourself into believing that the top players will simply decide not to pick a hero not because of their strength, but because they are too scared to lose in the short term (even though past metas contradict this).
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Not caring about players for being “mediocre” is elitism.
Duh. Just because they assume so doesn’t make it so.
6 buffs changed that.
Back to talking like a KGB interrogator.
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Sure. Lets go with what you’re saying.
Please justify why & how the game should be balanced any other way, and explain the merits of it.
My justification is : balancing top down creates actual balance, because you the potential of heroes can only be achieved by the best players
Please elaborate. She’s weak at low levels because she requires incredible aim to compete with other heroes. She’s powerful at high levels because players have the incredible aim to make her a good pick
What am I missing? How do you buff Widow for lower ranks without breaking her at higher ones?
quote where I said that blizz shouldn’t care about mediocre players. its also great that you ignored the sentence right after that one.
you assumed that the reason they are mediocre is because the players assumed they were.
why did they play him? I thought you said that they were averse to change?
back to ignoring things that challenge you.
im sure they’re going to ignore this since they ignored it when I said it.
But not seen every game, that’s my point.
You want to state that Genji is the most played dps, sure, he is.
If you state Genji is seen every game (the argument of OP), then I will show stats that he is not (my argument).
You just came in here without following the context.
So you aren’t on the same page as I am. I use meta because that shows a hero’s power whereas popularity and ladder pick rates do not.
Not sure what you are arguing anyway.
The op argues Genji is seen every game.
What is your argument?
No, it is very normal considering Genji is far more popular than most dps heroes due to his design.
Many dps heroes in this game aren’t even designed for fps players, they will never have high pick rates.
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This man knows what he is saying
You never justified why it should be balanced around such a tiny proportion of players.
You just stated that those players are better as if that proves anything. It proves nothing, it’s just pandering to elitist biases.
That is not any sort of justification. You’re just saying “nuh uhh, it IS!”
Not very weak at low levels and not very strong even at the highest levels.
She doesn’t require incredible aim due to the incredibly generous head hitboxes.
One way she is held back in low levels but is an irrelevant factor at higher levels is her hipfire. In low levels people screw up as a sniper and end up needing to hitfire. Her hipfire is currently very weak, irrelevant to the best players who almost always scope in but to noobs hipfire helps a lot.
One way to nerf her at higher levels is to weaken her grappling hook to prevent her using advanced tactics like flying high into the air to shoot over the top of barriers. You could nerf this several ways like slow down her grappling hook so she doesn’t fly as high into the sky or add a quality to her rifle so that if she scopes in while airborne she has increased sway. Slowing down her grappling hook would also make it harder for her to escape and mainly be a means for her to get to high ground.
Now I am NOT going to then have a 25 post back and forth reply quibbling over EXACTLY how effective these EXACT changes would be.
That would be a blatant red herring.
The point of this is to make you see how you can be careful with your buffs and affect things which matter more to different ranks. It doesn’t matter EXACTLY how much EXACTLY what changes have to EXACTLY which ranks, the point is there are differences.
Did you think that’s an amazing gotcha that I’ve got to decontruct?
There’s not reasoning there, it’s just “but they’re the best!”
Nothing logically follows from that! If Brig is popular in M/GM and is nerfed due to that how is that any help AT ALL to the overwhelming majority of the players in the game who can’t find value with her?
No it doesn’t.
You’re using “meta” in the sense that doesn’t have any clear meaning, if it’s not referring to the hero who is most picked.
And people don’t even agree what “ladder” means, does that mean ALL ranks, or just the high ranks?
My argument is that it’s not somehow okay just because Genji isn’t in literally every game.
What does that mean? It doesn’t mean anything. Of course it’s to do with his design.
I can only have a wild guess what you mean by that.
The problem is nobody else does.
You may think you do, but you’re guessing.
If you’re suggesting that Genji is still op, explain?
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