I know the hero isn’t in a bad spot or anything and doesn’t really need help.
But the secondary is problematic when comparing it to the primary fire.
Torbjorn has a primary fire for longer range and a shot gun that should be better up close.
But right now in most times the secondary is just useless.
Lets start with the fact that in total if I include reloads, there’s only a difference of 12 damage per second between the 2 which is the same damage as one bullet of the shot gun, so if you miss even 1 bullet per shot (pretty common among shotguns…) you’re gonna do more damage with the primary fire.
Second, until an enemy comes up close- armor reduces the damage of the shotgun enough for the primary to be better. Normally you’d do 110.3 damage per second with 100% accuracy with his secondary (including reload) and 98.4 damage per second with his primary fire. The second you include armor to the mix suddenly primary fire does 94.2 damage per second and secondary does 83.8 damage per second…
So overall:
if you fight at long range, primary fire is the only one that can reach
If you fight a small target up close, primary fire is better because of accuracy
If you fight a big target up close, most of them have armor making the primary fire better.
So when does the secondary fire becomes better? Against B.O.B,Winston’s bubble, Roadhog and Hammond specifically?
Don’t know about you but I do think the secondary should feel like a real shotgun… Something effective up close and not just a noob trap.
Not asking for much… Just buff shotgun damage from 12.5 damage per bullet to 13.5 damage per bullet so the hero would actually have a reason to use that thing…
Its already very good and and miles better than that 105 confetti shotgun he had prior. I couldnt duel roadhogs when he had that, but after the buff i can. I can kill doomfists easily when they dive me, and melt dva. Torb’s a really good poke hero, might need to be tuned down in ow2. Just my stupid opinion; sorry for being a downer.
I get your point but I still need to ask you then, why using his secondary fire when his primary does everything better?
You mentioned Doomfist and Roadhog, against Doomfist you’re gonna miss at least one pallet from your secondary for sure, making the primary fire better as not only it would do more damage but also has higher damage potential when it lands a headshot.
For Roadhog specifically you’re right, but the fact an ability is useful for one or 2 heroes alone is pretty shameful… (although here as well, if you can land a headshot primary fire usually be better as I don’t think you can land all secondary’s shots on Hog’s head but maybe you can… need some testings)
I’m against having a useless ability in a hero’s kit. Even if right now he does fine with it, the primary fire still does more up close which doesn’t make a lot sense to me…
Who knows, maybe it’s his primary fire who needs a nerf not his secondary needing a buff but I think we can both agree no reason for a hero to have an ability that is only useful for very very specific targets…
Either way, when compared to other shot guns in the game, his secondary finishes almost last only surpassing Doomfist’s hand cannons who are more of a finishers anyways… Extra 10 damage to his shot gun (or at least 5…) would make the numbers a bit more similar to other shots guns while also fixing the problem of where to pick what…
His primary is better than his secondary. I dont use shotgun against reaper or doomfist, i click on their heads with primary. But if youre good with the secondary thats even better. Secondary is niche i think against tanks, not just 1 or 2 heroes. It does its job , imo.
I agree with you about not wanting a hero to have a useless ability. I was making threads often here to buff torbs shotgun when it was 105, and they did which is why i am ok with how it is. Its not op but reasonable. Im a doom main but i always go torb when theres a troublesome dva or a rein and burst them down.
If RMB’s going to stay as it is, I’d like to try having its ammo consumption lowered to two instead of three. It’s rough having the worse fire mode also burn through my mag quickly.
It does less damage per second than his primary against armor… If you’d use his secondary against tanks, often you’re just gonna do less damage
I mean, you can destroy the armor and then move to secondary but it’s a very limited use…
Fair.
A nice way to balance it.
Hmmmm… To be honest I’m not too sure, as you only give the hero extra 5-10 damage and only up close.
Primary fire would still be better if you can land headshot consistently.
Stronger heroes already got bigger buffs for free, this one just shifts a bit the weapon of choice up close.
And it’s not like Torb becomes any better in ow2 btw with shields going away…
I can promise you that this change wouldn’t make him meta, for sure.
I’m down tbh. Or buff the projectile speed of his primary fire if we they wanna keep the balance so that you would use the primary fire 90% of the time. Either way is fine
It should do less damage. It is the tradeoff for being more reliable to hit.
You use secondary to finish off low targets because you can hit them almost guaranteed with a few pellets, unlike primary which is much harder to miss.
You never use secondary on a full health target, no matter the range.
How is it more reliable to hit with less range & slower fire rate.
Enemies with low range usually run away from you, not run away into you.
Not to mention, if it really was a finisher it was closer to Doomfist’s primary fire or Widowmaker’s smg- having faster fire rate for finishing low target even without perfect shots rather than hoping for one accurate enough close range bursty shot…
All the point of finishers is to do very little damage output total in exchange for putting a lot of quick damage in order to make sure the enemy is gone… Enemies with low range can heal or reach hiding any second so you need to make sure they are gone for good as quickly as possible.
To me it sounds like the “deflect effect” where people confuse the original concept of an ability vs what is it used currently.
When you create something with a lot of damage, but slower fire rate and spread. It’s usually better for big targets as they are bigger and don’t tend to run around too much.
While bursty shots with faster fire rate tend to fit dps more as they are more mobile and any shot can kill them and so you need to make sure to finish them before they escape.
Another example of a finisher btw is Genji’s dash, allowing him to chase escaping target and hit all of the shots reliably…
Besides, if all of that wasn’t enough- The turret is pretty much the perfect finisher, perfect aim with 56 damage per second that focus who you shot. Why needing a finisher when the turret is just that…
Overall I think while discussing balancing changes, people need to refer more to the balance according to the hero’s design not according to the current way people play it because of stats as it just changes the hero a lot and makes a weird mix…
If I remember correctly it was nerfed because it was way too good against Tanks at close range.
Despite what many people think, Torb isn’t in a bad spot right now.
If his secondary gets more power, then that power should be taken from somewhere else within his kit (maybe from his Overload, which seems to be off the radar for most people when it comes to Torbs strength).
You’re right but they nerfed it really really hard. Not removing 5,10 or even 20 damage.
They nerfed it from 150 damage down to 125.
For normal damage nerf it might be fine but it creates a giant problem when the primary fire out shines the shot gun even in the shot gun’s best spot…
Tbh not many people I talked to think he’s bad…
The other way around, I see a lot of people speak about how strong he is while people aren’t aware of.
Which is pretty fair as he has a very high damage output and can counter brawl tanks really well of the dps don’t focus the turrets.
Why should he get a compensation It’s not like we buff him for free… We make an ability people already don’t use, useful. People who can hit headshot reliably would not see a difference really with that buff.
Besides, he’s really one of the more balanced heroes being super weak at longer ranged where the secondary isn’t too helpful…
If Mccree got 225 hp for free no reason not to give Torb a chance to use his secondary… He’s only gonna use it against tanks anyways.
Although I guess that if you have to nerf an aspect of him it should probably be his overload… As this is really the only aspect of the hero that wouldn’t become bad after a nerf.
He’s already enough of an obnoxious character, he does not need buffing - I’d even say perhaps some changes downward are the right thing to go for.
I hate the turret. I hate that he no longer has to build it. I hate his ultimate. I hate that he’s mostly full of fire-and-forget garbage that either does his work for him or gives him so much leniency. I hate his stupid barrel stuffer alt fire. I hate his Overload ability giving him all of what it does instead of just speed + one of those things.
I stated in the post, this is less about buff for viability and more for sense.
The secondary is just useless. The primary does everything better than the secondary: more range, higher damage against armored targets, higher headshot damage increase, higher accuracy…
Just no real reason to keep it that way. No ability should ever be useless.
If you think he’s op, then they can nerf the primary for the secondary to be better up close I don’t really care (I mean, I do have an opinion on the situation but the point of the post is only speaking about his out shines ability) I just want the secondary to have a real use instead of being a weaker primary…
It’s not like we buff him for free… We make an ability people already don’t use, useful. People who can hit headshot reliably would not see a difference really with that buff.