Can we get a dev to talk about support?

Hey Andy, I assume the dev team has already hit this problem and, assuming its one of the things you could mention to us, have you guys thought about how to differentiate Supports from DPS if healing does get nerfed?

Like, if healing gets nerfed to a point where healing mid team fight is not as efficient keeping the team alive as straight up neglecing healing and going for the kill. At that point we might as well be playing DPS so i do wonder if you guys have taken that aspect into consideration.

Well, the damage role is kinda the least impactful(at least it was before all the more recent tank nerfs anyways) because tanks are essentially beefier but shorter ranged damage heroes.

It’s fairly common for tanks to score the damage and elim medals, and while medals certainly aren’t everything, they certainly aren’t nothing either. Both roles have overlapping jobs.

But that’s the most entertaining part. Also:

That’s an potential outcome, at the very least, it gets me potential results.

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Why are you larping as a psychopath?

Because they drop the polite civil act and give you a piece of their mind for being maladjusted and odd.

I will say this is true, all the superficial BS goes out the window.

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I don’t know but being insincere certainly isn’t respectable, and being annoying is all about being insincere.

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Again, not exactly clever, but whatever.

I doubt it.

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We both know the medals don’t mean anything. Chip damage is nothing. Burst damage is kills and kills progress objectives.

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Why is this “too bad”? Why should they need to decline? if they are as advanced as you say then they need to be preserved to continue bettering and stand in the light like everyone else. I think you might be very surprised that these other areas aren’t going to adopt easily…

LOL it won’t happen. No, what it is is just a power grab in many ways. They won’t adopt it I guarantee it.

Very debatable position, no one “new” has contributed much if at all, sort of the definition of it. It also conveniently bypasses Europe. Frankly the whole thing sounds like giant grab when you step back and look at it, you can dress it up any way you want to. The point here is there is zero pressure for these groups to adopt anything of the like, just North America and Europe.

I think we have a serial killer on our hands here, boys

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They mean something. While it isn’t an indication of winning, it is an indication of how much damage you’re doing(obviously).

Tanks put out just as much damage as the damage characters, and damage equals pressure. The damage characters are tasked with making sure the elims actually occur.

“Golly gee if this sigma just lands ten more orbs he might be close to killing my pocket”

Oh, I see now. Completely agreed, thanks!

It’s only when I’m bored or interested in an individual. I find viewing human emotions and responses a fascinating sight to behold: something to research in my spare time.

I’d rather humans be more upfront about their true intentions and actions, then hide behind a metaphorical mask.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say “insincere”, more like “pestering” or “experimenting”. Something to do to exercise my boredom when I’m in a casual environment.

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So you disagree that tanks are good at doing damage then?

It’s inevitable --every empire has a lifespan.

Well, don’t have too much fun being a degenerate, and don’t forget to record the results

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While I think there’s a substantial amount of truth to what you say here, I have a few concerns/points of response.

Firstly, concern, yes, many damage players have indicated that they don’t feel like they have impact. Many tank and support players have voiced the same frustration. Why do damage players, in this instance, get priority? Is it as simple as there are more of them?

But, if there are more of them and fewer Tanks/Supports, but we remain with a system where Tanks & Supports will bottleneck queues, wouldn’t it make sense to focus in hard on Tanks & Supports feeling content with the degree of impact they have on the match? I feel that’s especially important in light of one of the biggest ongoing complaints being queue times, and while I know nothing is final yet, the direction Blizzard has talked about for OW2 hasn’t exactly been met with roaring approval from the Tank & Support communities, which threatens any good that the shift to 5v5 was supposedly going to bring. If Supports & Tanks are leaving or switching to DPS or just hanging out in PvE because they don’t like how the playstyle change or feel that they don’t bring enough to the PvP table, then that wholly undermines one of the primary reasons for 5v5.

On top of that, just as food for thought, I wanna address these two points in combination:

While… I do think there is some truth to what you’re saying here, I think it’s also overlooking some key points.

On their faces, Tank & Support are pretty simple, too. Tanks are a shield. Supports are healing. While they’re not as on-the-nose as Damage (though that even started as Offense/Defense), I don’t think people are overly confused by those titles to the basic function of those roles in a match. Most people understand that.

Now, understanding the full impact of those roles and how they factor into a match beyond the most basic function does require a more-abstract appreciation for how they enable the team… but the same is also true of DPS. An early Widow pick on the enemy Tracer means heroes like Ana & Zenyatta can play much more safely from the backline. Effective harassment from a Genji/Tracer/Doomfist means they’re pulling attention off the rest of your team, relieving some of the stress on your Tanks & Supports. The list can go on. The reality is that everything you say of Tanks/Supports is true of DPS, too, but for whatever reason, we don’t recognize that DPS do play a very impactful role in the game that exists beyond “pew pew pew.”

Now, because Overwatch is objective based and because every hero can deal damage, I do think that DPS are less consequential on the negative end (i.e. a bad DPS won’t sink your team as fast as a bad Tank), but they nonetheless can be immensely consequential on the positive end, which I think goes unrecognized. If Tanks & Supports are expected to see beyond the basic “shield shield shield” and “heal heal heal,” why not hold DPS to the same standard and elevate the expectation of impact from “kill kill kill” to “who I kill, when I kill, how I kill can drastically alter the opportunities available for my team and enable them to do things they may not be able to do otherwise?”

I agree with your (seeming) idea here that optics matter and this is why we have the issue with feelings about certain roles’ level of impact right now, but I’m not sure that argument is actually being applied as fully as it should be. Based on what we’ve seen so far and heard so far, I certainly don’t think so.

Finally, I wanna bring up one last thing:

Refer to YOURFRIEND’s comment here. Optics matter, like I said above, though in a different context this time. I’m assuming Blizzard has been putting more of an effort to keep a finger on the pulse of the community and their concerns. It certainly seems you’re aware that there is a lot of concern about Tanks & Supports, and this concern has existed for a while now. That in mind, and keeping in mind the potential ramifications for queue times if Blizzard bungles the Support & Tanks roles, then why hasn’t Blizzard been more readily focused on addressing & alleviating those concerns?

While there has been a little more in the way of Tank talk than Support & DPS talk, it’s not that much more, and a pretty non-negligible portion of Tank players aren’t exactly thrilled with the information we’ve received. Support players are basically eating scraps, and nearly all of those scraps are negative. One major, MAJOR shortcoming of Blizzard for years now has been messaging. They botched the Diablo messaging, they botched the Hearthfire messaging, and they’ve been botching and are continued to botch Overwatch messaging. If I could offer a bit of advice (wanted or not :slight_smile: ), Blizzard needs to focus in hard on the Tank/Support messaging soon, especially Support, and they need to be very focused on how those changes are going to benefit the player experience in those roles, because as I’m sure you’ve already seen, there’s a lot of worry that Tank & Support players are not going to be enjoying Overwatch 2 very much.

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Nah, swore an oath to pacifism: I couldn’t harm anyone if I wanted to. Plus I’m lazy. Killing someone takes too much time, energy, and effort to do, and is waste of human life and resources.

That’s of course what many would like to project - that doesn’t make it reality.

I think you are what we refer to as a “defeatist”. Similar thoughts were had around the turn of the 19th century and earlier btw. This thinking is nothing new. Maybe you take a bit more of a stance in the world might help.

Then read a book in clinical psychology and stop harassing people.

Yeah, that’s quixotic. If you saw the actual results of that, you’d be begging for the polite, civil mask to be put back on.

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