You can have that opinion, i simply see their post as talking about stuff that pvp is not about, the post sound like talking about world building, what pvp is not as its separated from lore to this day outside few skins.
I dont care about their bright optimistic inclusive future if i will not like gameplay 
And btw, in the end, who knows maybe they do fifa mode for summer games in OW2 once they start to care again about doing stuff for events.
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This is probably the most reassuring thing I’ve heard anybody say about OW 2 thus far. I can’t wait to try it out myself when the beta (if there is in fact going to be a beta) or it’s released.
Why do you love to strawman so hard?
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Are you allowed to clarify which aspects of those games are driving the comparisons? Coming from an arena shooter and tac shooter background, my experience with CoD has mostly been mindlessly throwing bodies at the enemy with little regard for teamplay or cleanliness of execution, and ignoring the objective, all to get higher firefight uptime. Given that this runs counter to the spirit of OW, I presume that isn’t what playtesters are referring to, but I can’t think of much else.
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It doesn’t really seem fair to ask Andy to explain what other people mean by their comments. In most of the comparisons I’ve heard, the people commenting explain their own meaning quite clearly, and others take it out of context to sensationalize it. If you need more clarification, you should either be referring to the context in which the comment was made, or asking whoever made the comment in the first place.
For example, Space stated that “it feels like CoD” specifically in the context of how quickly players get back into the action after dying on the Rome map, regardless of how differently or broadly the forum uses that phrase.
I can’t speak for Super or Space, but to me it felt more like they were referring to the fact that Damage heroes have a more noticeable impact on the outcome of the map, and that the potential for an individual to “carry” a team is higher in 5v5.
A common point of feedback I see from damage players is that they feel as though they have minimal impact on the outcome of a match. Especially in the current meta, it can be frustrating when you feel as though you spend most of your resources chewing through double barriers.
They both pointed out that the absence of a second tank (and minimizing the possibility for this particular point of frustration…Brig still exists) creates more opportunity for damage heroes to shine and feel as though they’re contributing in a meaningful way to the match. I think that’s an important empathy point that they both expressed wonderfully that I tend to see missing in the day to day discussion here on the forums.
It’s completely normal to worry about how changes are going to impact your experience with playing the game. Personally, I tend to view it as the “job” of the players to ensure that we hear perspectives from Tank, Support, and Damage mains (and even OTP), it’s my job to ensure that the feedback is communicated in a way that properly contextualizes said feedback, and it’s the Hero Design team’s job to understand the big picture, and to translate that into an enjoyable experience for as many players as possible.
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Since Brig still exists can we get more information on how her rework will end up being beyond just removing the stun? Her current iteration almost doesn’t work as a support so no matter how much they rework her, she probably doesn’t even fit in the role. Can we also remove Baps lamp permanently or at least swap his lamp to being an ult rather than a whole ability that basically functions as Mercy’s old team rez which they removed for many reasons.
Edit: I know it takes a lot to record new voicelines for ults so lets consider having Baps lamp only reduce damage taken temporarily, not prevent death outright.
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This is true to an extent; I think the overarching problem is there are certain heroes and abilities when played properly (immortality, double shield, brig) that deny individual impact from heroes that can include the DPS role. It effects all 3 roles IMO in different ways. If there’s one common theme I’ve noticed from other players in GM, it’s that people complain about how individual impact is indirectly nerfed by other abilities simply being played.
I think with how balance is, for DPS you need the tanks to have set up and supports give resources to them to have high impact on heroes like mccree, doomfist, reaper, sym, etc. In fact, the two best DPS heroes right now, soldier and tracer, are meta because they are the most consistent DPS. They are consistent because team resources are a minimal variable for them because they have very high self agency and independent play potential.
I am worried about how much the balance could shift in OW2. The concept that made this game a masterpeace initially was the balance between MOBA and FPS. I’m worried with how some modes work combined with the tested healer changes (especially that debuff), and how much damage heroes are being indirectly buffed by one less tank and support/tank changes and directly buffed like sombra, that this game will lose the feel that attracted so many players in the industry.
Super said the game felt weird in testing and ‘the vibe felt weird’, and I just hope that it doesn’t swing too far in the ‘click heads and deathmatch’ style. DPS will definitely need massive nerfs depending on the hero if the game is going in the direction I think it is
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I just wanted to say that there is a big part of the community (which does not belong to the vocal minority) that greatly appreciates your work and transparecy. Interacting with the forums can be… challenging. Keep it up!
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Wouldn’t that mean removing impact from Tank and Support to give DPS more impact? If damage has more impact, then healing and defensive abilities would have less, would it not?
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So your answer to the most popular role to play in the game is to make them more impactful and this in turn makes the less popular roles become less impactful. This making fewer people want to play them.
So, as a tank and support player, why would I want to play this game? What do you think will happen when you can no longer find players who wish to be target dummies for the DPS players to have their fun?
I’m not trying to just complain here Andy. But really this game that you have described and the team has shown us looks like it will be a lot of fun for the 2 DPS players and unenjoyable for the other 3 players on the team.
So please, can you give me just one thing that will make this game sound more fun or at the very least equally as fun as the game I am playing now. Because to date I have yet to see or hear anything that would make me optimistic in that regard.
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No because it’s going to be more of a power shift. My understanding is that they will move CC to the tank class, focus on damage in the DPS class, and utility for the support class.
This way every class will feel unique and have impact in their own way. Tanks/brawlers will disrupts the enemy team, DPS will do the DMG (obviously), and supports (moving away from being healers) will provide utility.
This also explains why they want to reduce in combat healing.
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A lot of the worry I am seeing from supports is that now the game is making them have little to no impact in terms of healing. A healing nerf on top of another in combat nerf is just to much and makes hero’s like Mercy or Moira seem like they are going to be useless. You acknowledge that it feels bad to spend all your resources on breaking barriers but it just feels like at the moment that frustration is being pushed onto the supports.
I’m just curious if there is going to be something added for the supports that gives them better utility?
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Utility is really hard to balance because it’s not “tangible” as blocking damage, damage or healing. It’s basically feel based on how effective it is.
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Yep, it won’t be easy and I don’t know if and how they will pull it off. However, i am pretty sure that’s the idea for OW2 and if done well, it’s a very good and healthy path for this game, imo.
no, in your blind hatred towards dps heroes you have missed the fact that most of them are incredibly lackluster when compared to a support or a tank and even those who are able to carry are simply made out of paper and things can go wrong for them very easily, so no, giving dps heroes more impact isn’t taking away from any other role, it’s giving them what they deserve after many years of having support and tanks dictating metas
Yes, my blind hatred for DPS is seething. Everyday I wake up and say “what can I do to effective absolutely no change by complaining on the forums”.
And people say supports have a victim complex >.>
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If they dont transform healers to dps, being a support wont make any sense.
" There is only 1 tank so we need less heals"
Well, yeah, then we need less dmg and you are making dmg the only useful thing on the game, so, why do you buff dmg and nerf heals? It just does not make sense. At this point nothing blizzard do has any sense.
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Personal take here, but I don’t usually conflate popularity with efficacy. While tank and support may not be the most popular roles, one could argue that they’re very impactful in any given match.
There was an article I read years ago that summed up a lot of the “why’s” for why folks play DPS roles in class based games. Not everything is applicable (the article was written about MMORPG gameplay), but the fundamental motivations remain true:
- Players love to see big numbers. The dopamine hit and instant feedback that players get from putting up big damage numbers is an immediate indication of how well you’re doing in game.
- Clear expectations around what you’re supposed to be doing: You are damage. You’re either flanking, ranged, or melee, but no matter what you know what you’re supposed to do: punch/kick/shoot/blow up the target in front of you.
Damage tends to be a more approachable role because it’s more straight forward, and appeals to a broader set of players.
Tanking and support requires you to have an appreciation for how your actions improve those around you, which is arguably one of the most impactful aspects of the game.
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What does this mean in terms of how they will play in OW2, though? For supports especially, their changes don’t seem like they’re geared towards making feel fun or impactful. Obviously the healing in combat nerf was a test and seemingly not going through, but what do changes like that do to make support players feel impactful and like they’re having fun?
It feels like a change solely made to make DPS feel better, not the supports actually doing the healing.
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