They just helped Sigma out in the last patch to compensate for a couple of his nerfs. Orisa is okay, DVA is still great, Ball is amazing and is going to be even better when the new Mei nerf drops, Winston may need something small, Baptiste is perfectly fine, and so is Zen. None of the characters you named are struggling to be viable.
I already detailed exactly why they did that in my previous post… I don’t think it’s that hard to comprehend really:
Are you referring to the Classic game modes here??
As I already said, if it really was such a big of a problem, they would have immediately implemented 3/2/1 into the game.
Since they didn’t do that, that means one thing and one thing only, that there are certainly important problems with 2/2/2 role lock (as there are with literally everything else in this world), but they’re not enough in any way in order to change the positive overall opinion of the majority of the player base towards the system, etc.
- In one of the latest Developer Updates Jeff Kaplan himself said that 2/2/2 role - queue was overall a “positive” change.
- Here are some official developer quotes that were released a couple of months ago:
And even more importantly, here’s the point where the overall very positive opinion of the majority of the game’s player base is touched upon:
- I have to admit this isn’t such a trustworthy source, but just the fact that the grand majority of the unofficial polls created in social places as historically negative for some reason as these Forums have surprisingly shown 2/2/2 role - lock to be a clear winner amongst fans, with the different concensus sometimes even touching 3:1 in favor of the system really says a lot …
But yeah, write all of them off while not providing even the slightest amount of evidence which proves your dream of 2/2/2 role - lock’s supposed ““failure””…
Truly bias at its finest… 
Youre extemely naive to believe that.
I strongly suggest playing all those heroes, looking at their pick rates and win rates then coming back and rethinking your opinion
Would love to have a link of the above…
As I think I’ve already told you already (hi again by the way 
), I doubt such a prospect extremely, for obvious reasons of course and for reasons I’ve most probably already provided…
I play with a Masters DVA and Zen. We don’t have any problems. I see you’re on PS4. If you want the smoke, you can get it.
for sake of clarity, I am (and was, at the time I wrote my response quoted above) aware of all of these items.
- I am referring to capture the flag.
- Your argument is they never undo or throw away something they invest time and money into. Yet in the same breath you admit they put time and money into 3-2-1 and threw it away.
No. Capture the flag.
Not true. They had already learned from that mistake. They may not admit to them publicly or typically revert mistakes but they do learn from them at least half the time.
They had already made the mistake of implementing 2-2-2 without long term public testing and saw the results. Results that they are very much trying to figure out how to combat. So much so they were willing this time to dump a bunch of effort and risk it meaning nothing in the end.
They introduced experimental so they could try it without long term risk. Because the last time they did such a sweeping change it did not do well (2-2-2)
Of course he did. Like I said before, Blizzard and especially the OW dev’s are infamous for never admitting mistakes. They make public statements as a PR move. Not as honest developers. Why? Because the shareholders want the value of their holdings to remain steady. Honesty would mean negative fluctuations in their holdings.
It is naive to take a dev of a AAA company at face value. Especially a fortune 500 company who’s main concern is appeasing the shareholders. Not its player customer base.
3 Likes
They need to make supports invincible but unable to do any damage or contest any objectives. Their job is to simply heal their teammates and provide utility. They can all have black and white striped jerseys and they can be the scapegoat if their team loses the match.
Goats was already dead when role Queue was released. It was not implemented to kill goats.
Okay… My mistake.
I just made a logical thought, which sometimes may come true and sometimes may not. I was not absolute in any way.
Also, besides that, let’s not compare the amount of time and money required to develop a slight transformation of just one of the different parts of role - lock to creating the entire system itself in the first place… For obvious reasons of course…
Once again, despite the fact that none of us can be true of how often te devs learn from the ““mistakes”” in the first place and quantify this as a metric, if the devs have been so dishonest and unable to admit mistakes as you’re suggesting, then why would they say that 3/2/1 was met mostly with criticism??
Why would they suddenly tell the truth if they are going to implement the system anyways as you’re suggesting??
These two points do nothing but collide with each other…
Ehh that’s not even close to what actually happened, but hey keep being biased I guess!! 
Don’t hold your breath pal. Blizzard’s investors and any company’s investors in that regard are always the first ones to know whether the numbers of a specific product, its retention rate, etc. are falling and are the first ones who are going to act, because it’s their money that’s going to be lost, not Jeff’s.
They’re not going to expect Jeff to do a video in order to be pleased. They want money and numbers, metrics that the game is still clearly bringing to the table, even with 2/2/2 role - lock, as it has been left untouched and has only been built upon for the last months.
So once again, your train of logic, unfortunately, makes little to no sense and your ideas are in conflict with each other, probably from trying so much to prove a non - existent point, such as 2/2/2 role - lock supposed ““failure””…
Disappointing to say the least… 
That’s the only thing I can say in this instance…
You cannot call the “5 DPS comps” a competitive experience either…
Considering now I can definitely blame my DPS on their lack of ability to kill anyone even as I try to heal them whilst being targeted. I don’t mind it too much. But the bans, I’m not sure about that.
Because it serves their purposes and they had no choice. They have learned what a mistake 2-2-2 was and despite not wanting to admit mistakes they are sometimes forced too. You can’t try something as drastic as 3-2-1, not implement it, then claim it was a success.
They also did not COMMIT to implementing it as they did with 2-2-2. The entire reason they did a separate experimental card THIS TIME is so they can separate their intentions and hide their mistakes a little more easily.
When one has no argument they instead attack the one presenting it. Such as calling them bias.
And as such have direct influence on what dev teams work on and focus. They see a problem with retention numbers for instance and study changes in comparison to when those numbers fall… then direct the dev team to correct it.
How little you understand publicly traded stocks…
Any news connected to a product has direct influence on the value of the holdings connected to said product. Someone says that oranges did not fare well this season? Guess what happens to holdings? They are sold off.
The same applies to that of developer statements. If they make a mistake and publicly admit it then it influences the value of holdings. Stocks are 20% fact and 80% emotion based. You have to predict what others emotional reaction to product news will be and decide how to act accordingly.
Jeff’s statements are very much influence by the shareholders wanting to retain value. Denying this shows supreme naivete of how publicly traded companies work.
My train of logic is perfectly sound provided you understand how stock trading works.
I mean, when one such yourself Sandvich does not understand stocks how can we expect more from you?
1 Like
I’ve always thought if people actually cared about their ranks, they would choose to play a hero that the team lacks. For a long time I’ve always believed creativity helps to counter op team compositions or create one. Even with 5 DPS, players can still pull a miracle but your probability of winning decreases. Also yes GOATS was almost completely dead before Role Queue but when they implemented it, they cemented it for sure.
What mistake??? Do you understand that you have absolutely 0 proof whatsoever that 2/2/2 role - lock was a mistake and/or any thing close to a failure??
Do you understand how ridiculous and biased you sound when you persistently and repeatedly bring up a point which I’ve asked you to provide evidence for, you have none and at the same time only evidence that proves the exact opposite conclusion exists??
They implemented it in Experimental in a very professional way for an entire week. They could have very, very well said that the response was staggering and that they would be implementing 3/2/1 with changes in like a month, if they’re that prone to lying to us as you want to believe.
Give me one line of evidence that proves the devs were commited to 2/2/2 role - lock from the very beginning, despite the fact that they spent 10X the resources overall on that initial system than 3/2/1.
No, no, please. Don’t give me that.
You are the one who has provided absolutely 0 evidence to prove any of your points, rather than your own absolute staggering bias and stubbornness to accept reality, which happens to not align with your own little bubble if personally disliking 2/2/2 role - lock.
So please, stop with the hypocrisy already.
Great. And has such a thing happened so far?
No, it hasn’t. Next conversation then…
Are you an analyst as well I see??
Public companies, either way, publish the exact numbers/statistics/retention rates/etc. every once in every 6/3 months and with even more details at the end of the year.
If Jeff creates a video saying that 2/2/2 role - lock or any other system in that regard was absolutely amazing for the game and everything is sunshine and rainbows, but in fact tons of players players are leaving, streamers are quitting due to queue times, poor flex players are leaving and ““so many people”” are unhappy with the system and as a result the game as a whole, etc., do you actually think the share holders/stock holders would still care about what Jeff said a few months ago?
I don’t think I have to answer that question. What you are describing and that emotional variable you bring to the table certainly plays an important role, don’t get me wrong, but not at this point in time. We’re past, past the point that a couple of words from Jeff claiming 2/2/2 role - lock was a failure means anything to the share holders. Maybe what you’re saying could be true 3 months after 2/2/2 role - lock’s release, but we’re almost a year in and therefore the variable you’re talking about does not matter anymore, that’s what I want you to understand.
Annual reports, 3rd/4th quarter financial results etc. have been released in the mean time, etc., hard - numbers which indicate nothing but the money coming in and out, share holders’ favorite words.
And, as it seems and according to the actual numbers, everything is fine in that regard concerning both the system and the game in general…
When someone like yourself cannot understand that when throw around random claims without any sort of evidence backing them up, then said claims are nothing but invalid…
But hey, as you said… “How can we expect more from you?”
But this time I’m not saying this sarcastically…
You have already admitted a “fair take” when I pointed out they are desperately trying to fix the problems created by role queue. So much so that they are acting much quicker then normal.
Logical conclusion is that it is pretty serious and they really are concerned.
I’ve brought it forth. Their actions speak very clearly.
You’ve done nothing but quote words. Words from the people who are infamous for rarely admitting mistakes. They only ever do so if forced too.
They could have, but they didn’t. Because they learned from previous mistakes. Such as 2-2-2. They don’t implement things for the sake of it. They implement it because they think its the right decision. However, after they make those decisions and they don’t pan out they don’t own up to it unless circumstances force them too.
They put in experimental THIS TIME because the LAST TIME they just threw a drastic change at the game it created severe problems they have no answer for.
The fact that they implemented it in OWL first. That they talked about it for a quite a while. The fact that they implemented into the game without any longstanding testing on the general public.
They were committed to doing so because they wanted to change OWL and as such they never implement something into OWL without bringing it to the main game.
Oh, I will. It’s your main method of attack Sandvich. I recognize it. Back in a corner? Better claim bias on the part of the opponent. Better fain confusion and no evidence when anyone can see the argument is pretty sound and the reasoning is there.
I have provided sound reasoning backed by fact. Sounds like evidence to me.
More desperate ploys. Backed into a corner? Call the person a hypocrite. Sandvich, Your debate skills need some sharpening and you need a new means of approaching discussion. Ad Hominem is a pretty sad stance to take.
It certainly has. Once again, you are naive if you think that shareholders have no influence on the development of a game.
Nope, A person who has traded in stocks for near six years (and done pretty well at it too).
Yes, But stockholders don’t simply wait for those numbers as trading is a DAY BY DAY occurrence. Do you not remember the “Do you guys not have phones?” debacle? Do you not know how quickly their share price dropped? What about the Hearthstone tournament? The whole scandal ALSO caused drops in stock price.
~Sigh~ You just don’t get it do you? He did it AT THE TIME because AT THE TIME it would not have reflected well on shareholder stock. Because share prices fluctuate DAILY. Not monthly, not bi-annually, DAILY.
You cannot dismiss motivation for what is said just because it inconveniences you. YOU are the one who brought as an example of evidence and as such it HAS to be fully analyzed in context and what would motivate or influence his claims.
The context does not change just because it no longer influences the stock market. If the actions were for that moment in time motivated by profit and not by honesty then it does not suddenly become truth months later. A lie is still a lie. A PR move is still a PR move.
I wonder what could have influenced that? Hmm? Perhaps reports made by Jeff to influence stockholder response? Those numbers could very well be different if honesty were used.
Good thing I have done no such thing then.
You not accepting logical conclusions does not invalidate my view or my argument Sandvich.
Of course not. Your way is attacking the character of the person presenting the argument. So sad.
1 Like
Roleque isn’t a failure, everytime I play QP Classic, you’ll get a 3/4 stack who will play whatever they want, everyone is doing their own thing. Roleque was a godsend for QP. QP Classic is a piece of garbage and it’s only fun if you’re playing as a group. I always go in QP Classic and do whatever I want, those are the rules there.
1 Like
I personally find qp classic to be the most fun mode of play currently available in OW, and I am almost always in solo que
I dont find anything about this mode to be anything like “garbage”
1 Like