Can We Admit Role Queue is a Failure?

They really haven’t moved on. They still talk about it a lot in interviews.

The idea of 3, 2, 1, wasn’t received as well, but the team believes they know why. “If Overwatch would have released with a 3,2,1 system, everyone would probably be fine with it, but since we didn’t, players got used to something and don’t want to see it be changed,”

That is not moving on. That looks like they think that if they force the issue, the players will accept it.

That may be right, or it may be wrong, but, they haven’t moved on from it. I think it is coming.

This reply evaded my notice when I first replied…

I still love how people regurgitate this overexagge- nay hyperbole - every time this topic comes up…first of all you didn’t have to and that SPECIFIC issue was already addressed…if you didn’t bother taking the (real easy) step to avoid that…that’s on you

Second - it’s the BIGGEST over exaggeration in history of OW…even in QP it didn’t happen…and it was even less likely to happen in comp as there was something on the line there…Jeff even came on here and touted 222 as the way most people play the game…the thing the community defaults to (which I can verify is very much the case even in QPC - my games are 95% of time either 222 or 132 there)…you could play 20 straight game of 222 and if you got a game with 4 dps you would scream bloody murder “UGH WHY ARE THERE ALWAYS 5 DPS ON MY TEAM”…

This whole 5 dps “boogie monster” has been perpetuated so much that community actually believes it was/is a thing

222 didn’t solve THAT…it just handcuffed everyone into playing something they were already doing for the most part…and I literally mean handcuffed…the game is a shell of itself now…variety and flexibility, which are supposed to be core staples of this game…are gone…and with it giant portions of the player base…

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Pretty much like the urban myth of “hide and rez Mercy”. Once something is removed from the game, people tend to believe what they think they remember, even if it was never a fact in the first place.

It’s a common psychological phenomenon, actually. That’s why data is valuable while checking past history.

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Role queue has made the game playable for me. As someone with ~17,000 games played I can say with confidence that at least 50% of them were unplayable as one team would have a viable team comp and the other would have something that doesn’t even remotely work. This was because people had their subset of playable heroes and there was never a good compromise that allowed all of the people to fill the role that they were good at.

They just helped Sigma out in the last patch to compensate for a couple of his nerfs. Orisa is okay, DVA is still great, Ball is amazing and is going to be even better when the new Mei nerf drops, Winston may need something small, Baptiste is perfectly fine, and so is Zen. None of the characters you named are struggling to be viable.

I already detailed exactly why they did that in my previous post… I don’t think it’s that hard to comprehend really:

Are you referring to the Classic game modes here??

As I already said, if it really was such a big of a problem, they would have immediately implemented 3/2/1 into the game.

Since they didn’t do that, that means one thing and one thing only, that there are certainly important problems with 2/2/2 role lock (as there are with literally everything else in this world), but they’re not enough in any way in order to change the positive overall opinion of the majority of the player base towards the system, etc.

  1. In one of the latest Developer Updates Jeff Kaplan himself said that 2/2/2 role - queue was overall a “positive” change.
  2. Here are some official developer quotes that were released a couple of months ago:

And even more importantly, here’s the point where the overall very positive opinion of the majority of the game’s player base is touched upon:

  1. I have to admit this isn’t such a trustworthy source, but just the fact that the grand majority of the unofficial polls created in social places as historically negative for some reason as these Forums have surprisingly shown 2/2/2 role - lock to be a clear winner amongst fans, with the different concensus sometimes even touching 3:1 in favor of the system really says a lot

But yeah, write all of them off while not providing even the slightest amount of evidence which proves your dream of 2/2/2 role - lock’s supposed ““failure””…

Truly bias at its finest… :man_facepalming: :man_facepalming:

Youre extemely naive to believe that.

I strongly suggest playing all those heroes, looking at their pick rates and win rates then coming back and rethinking your opinion

Would love to have a link of the above…

As I think I’ve already told you already (hi again by the way :slight_smile: ), I doubt such a prospect extremely, for obvious reasons of course and for reasons I’ve most probably already provided…

I play with a Masters DVA and Zen. We don’t have any problems. I see you’re on PS4. If you want the smoke, you can get it.

for sake of clarity, I am (and was, at the time I wrote my response quoted above) aware of all of these items.

  1. I am referring to capture the flag.
  2. Your argument is they never undo or throw away something they invest time and money into. Yet in the same breath you admit they put time and money into 3-2-1 and threw it away.

No. Capture the flag.

Not true. They had already learned from that mistake. They may not admit to them publicly or typically revert mistakes but they do learn from them at least half the time.

They had already made the mistake of implementing 2-2-2 without long term public testing and saw the results. Results that they are very much trying to figure out how to combat. So much so they were willing this time to dump a bunch of effort and risk it meaning nothing in the end.

They introduced experimental so they could try it without long term risk. Because the last time they did such a sweeping change it did not do well (2-2-2)

Of course he did. Like I said before, Blizzard and especially the OW dev’s are infamous for never admitting mistakes. They make public statements as a PR move. Not as honest developers. Why? Because the shareholders want the value of their holdings to remain steady. Honesty would mean negative fluctuations in their holdings.

It is naive to take a dev of a AAA company at face value. Especially a fortune 500 company who’s main concern is appeasing the shareholders. Not its player customer base.

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They need to make supports invincible but unable to do any damage or contest any objectives. Their job is to simply heal their teammates and provide utility. They can all have black and white striped jerseys and they can be the scapegoat if their team loses the match.

Goats was already dead when role Queue was released. It was not implemented to kill goats.

Okay… My mistake.

I just made a logical thought, which sometimes may come true and sometimes may not. I was not absolute in any way.

Also, besides that, let’s not compare the amount of time and money required to develop a slight transformation of just one of the different parts of role - lock to creating the entire system itself in the first place… For obvious reasons of course…

Once again, despite the fact that none of us can be true of how often te devs learn from the ““mistakes”” in the first place and quantify this as a metric, if the devs have been so dishonest and unable to admit mistakes as you’re suggesting, then why would they say that 3/2/1 was met mostly with criticism??

Why would they suddenly tell the truth if they are going to implement the system anyways as you’re suggesting??

These two points do nothing but collide with each other…

Ehh that’s not even close to what actually happened, but hey keep being biased I guess!! :rofl:

Don’t hold your breath pal. Blizzard’s investors and any company’s investors in that regard are always the first ones to know whether the numbers of a specific product, its retention rate, etc. are falling and are the first ones who are going to act, because it’s their money that’s going to be lost, not Jeff’s.

They’re not going to expect Jeff to do a video in order to be pleased. They want money and numbers, metrics that the game is still clearly bringing to the table, even with 2/2/2 role - lock, as it has been left untouched and has only been built upon for the last months.

So once again, your train of logic, unfortunately, makes little to no sense and your ideas are in conflict with each other, probably from trying so much to prove a non - existent point, such as 2/2/2 role - lock supposed ““failure””…

Disappointing to say the least… :man_facepalming: :man_facepalming:

That’s the only thing I can say in this instance…

You cannot call the “5 DPS comps” a competitive experience either…

Considering now I can definitely blame my DPS on their lack of ability to kill anyone even as I try to heal them whilst being targeted. I don’t mind it too much. But the bans, I’m not sure about that.

Because it serves their purposes and they had no choice. They have learned what a mistake 2-2-2 was and despite not wanting to admit mistakes they are sometimes forced too. You can’t try something as drastic as 3-2-1, not implement it, then claim it was a success.

They also did not COMMIT to implementing it as they did with 2-2-2. The entire reason they did a separate experimental card THIS TIME is so they can separate their intentions and hide their mistakes a little more easily.

When one has no argument they instead attack the one presenting it. Such as calling them bias.

And as such have direct influence on what dev teams work on and focus. They see a problem with retention numbers for instance and study changes in comparison to when those numbers fall… then direct the dev team to correct it.

How little you understand publicly traded stocks…

Any news connected to a product has direct influence on the value of the holdings connected to said product. Someone says that oranges did not fare well this season? Guess what happens to holdings? They are sold off.

The same applies to that of developer statements. If they make a mistake and publicly admit it then it influences the value of holdings. Stocks are 20% fact and 80% emotion based. You have to predict what others emotional reaction to product news will be and decide how to act accordingly.

Jeff’s statements are very much influence by the shareholders wanting to retain value. Denying this shows supreme naivete of how publicly traded companies work.

My train of logic is perfectly sound provided you understand how stock trading works.

I mean, when one such yourself Sandvich does not understand stocks how can we expect more from you?

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I’ve always thought if people actually cared about their ranks, they would choose to play a hero that the team lacks. For a long time I’ve always believed creativity helps to counter op team compositions or create one. Even with 5 DPS, players can still pull a miracle but your probability of winning decreases. Also yes GOATS was almost completely dead before Role Queue but when they implemented it, they cemented it for sure.

“nO OneS QUITTING!”
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