Uh huh.
So you aren’t capable of doing so, got it.
I literally, and thoroughly explained why I’m not. In case you didn’t read it and just skimmed for quotes.
If you had just responded back “No, I won’t move the goalpost; you can get your evidence in whatever game mode you want”, you’d be watching a video of me playing as both Baptiste and Ana right this second.
dont blame ana for baps downfall blame blizzard, theyre sadists for what they did to bap
Trends are changing, and as expected, Baptiste would struggle if players aren’t playing in a death-ball like composition anymore. 50 healing per shot area effect barely keeps up with Zenyatta’s own healing orb, and offensively, Baptiste isn’t particularly good with how difficult his LMB is to fire and aim with.
Regen Burst can’t be brought back up to 30 healing per second, otherwise it just eclipses Inspire/Crossfade, but 75 total healing is a bit on the weak side, even if Baptiste gets the full 150.
At this point, it just isn’t Baptiste’s meta and there’s not much they can do to improve him other than fixing him up offensively. Amp Matrix isn’t going to win any awards as an ultimate ability when there’s already so many other damage-increasing abilities available on other Supports.
They can’t, it’s already too strong as it is;. lowering the cooldown would just leave it ripe for abuse.
This may be the best option overall. Going back to late summer 2019’s fire rate must address some issues, but I think they’re just need to examine the gun’s recoil/climb and/or bring back the 2 missing healing ammo.
You have to buff his damage, but allowing easier attempts at landing said damage may improve his viability. His healing isn’t much harder than Ana’s (and in typical parses, it appears Baptiste is landing his healing shots more accurately than Ana, either way). Returning to 12 ammo shots wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it’s going to help too much either. And boosting his healing back up to 60 per shot may end up being overkill to the point where teams will start to build around him again.
Statistics cannot tell you everything.
It’s already been boosted in duration and width and it can come up pretty regularly. It’s just not a reliable ultimate no matter how you look at it. There’s just too much damage-boost alternatives that aren’t ultimates and aren’t locked in place.
Tweaking this anymore would just cause problems. Short of re-tooling it, there’s not much more they can do.
It already jumps higher than Doomfist’s Uppercut, and competes with Genji’s Swiftstrike. Making it jump even higher wouldn’t really improve him, either way. Reducing charge time even further doesn’t seem like it would help, either and it’s already seen reductions.
Moira has area effect healing, and recent changes to her damage biotic orb have made her slightly more threatening. Healing Biotic Orbs are still just as strong and viable as they always have been, so Moira doesn’t need to be everywhere, even if her healing power has declined.
This was always going to be a problem if the trends changed on Baptiste and it did and the outcome was obvious, he would struggle. Reducing Regen Burst’s healing had to be done, but it was a balancing the possibility of misses from his basic shots, and evened out his overall healing. We can’t really revert Regen Burst, so we would have to look at his offensive potential, and there is something there, but it’s very difficult to rely on.
Baptiste can play with any Tank, it was never a challenge to heal Tanks for him, but rather single targets or in heavily spread out formations.
It’s already pretty fast, and fairly long distance. 3 meter explosion radius tends to be one of the widest explosions available (not even Junkrat, Zarya or Pharah get it this good), making it even bigger couldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it would help him overall.
His Ultimate has never really been very good compared to some others. In terms of healing, it can be easy to mess up, but that’s why he had Regen Burst as an “equalizer” to keep his healing steady. We can’t really return it back to 30 healing per second for 5 seconds; as that level of healing is just so far above everything else in the game at the moment.
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Since one person can pop IF it’s basically useless and on a long cooldown (counterproductive). At least Mercy resurrect has a chance to be useful. Ana is better solo heals and Moira has better group heals. Bap’s whole purpose was IF and everyone hated it. Go figure he got the Brig/Mercy treatment.
bro you might want to stop you’re just embarassing yourself
No he doesnt need more damage he is fine as he is with the current damage potential he has. I played only 2 hours of him back when he was at the peak of meta in double shield. Guess what? Got from 3.5k to 3.8k on support with him in that short amount of time. I do not think reverting his damage back to what it was (if not better than how it was is the solution).
I know you cannot see my playtime on bap on this acc (i got other ones this is my otp).
- The reason Soldier got the helix buff in the first place back in early march was because of it being the ONLY difference between his and baps damage.
- When you play bap you need to aim a bit downwards as he has a different “spray” or pattern to his bullets if u could call it that. It will automatically start going upward as you shoot, making it less precise. There is a skill to such, an increase in damage is not the solution.
Solution imo: Make his healing a bit faster than it currently is, and for Blizzard to realise more proper tutorials for characters. It can be very hard to learn to hit Baps shoots of healing and his hitscan weapon. If one does not truly know how they function.
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Whoa, sorry. I missed a word there. I meant to say “You wouldn’t have to buff his damage, but allowing easier attempts at landing said damage may his viability.”
His damage was never buffed, but his fire rate was improved over the summer. There were concerns about his sustained output rivaling Soldier’s, but not understanding why Soldier’s damage is burst-oriented (as many damage heroes tend to be) versus Baptiste’s sustain.
That wasn’t it. Soldier’s cooldown reduction of Helix Rocket was to keep it competitive with the newly introduced damage-role hero, Echo, and her 6-second Sticky Bombs.
Traditionally, Support weapons have tended to be easier to use and manage over other weapons from the Damage-role. Baptiste is an aberration to this and he’s the first hero to have recoil on his basic fire wherein no other hero in the game has it. Removing the spread and increasing the fire rate was never given an explanation for why they did (other than maybe just as an experiment), but when they reverted the fire rate to launch state, they kept the spread removal. His gun is slightly better now than it was back in launch.
Making it easier to aim and land shots wouldn’t really hurt Baptiste, especially when his shots are still harder to aim than the more offensively minded Zenyatta; or the defensively minded Moira and Brigitte.
There’s not much they can do to make it “faster” as it already travels at an incredibly fast pace with a lower fire rate than Ana’s. They could revert the healing to 60, or bring the ammo back up to 12, but I’m not completely sure they would fix issues where he doesn’t fit into the current meta.
Arrogance is not good to have in a proper discussion as it only shows that one does not want to have a proper civil conversation.
I don’t think i need to add more onto this. If you’re good at bap at decent at aiming one will be able to put damage out. Its not even about aim in my opinion, its more about knowing the distance his bullets go before they start doing less damage. Not to forget the spray pattern I already mentioned.
Firerate makes damage better and more. Therefor buffing a chars firerate is the same as buffing a chars damage. It goes hand in hand.
Ur right baptiste does actually do more damage than Soldier during such burst. It is also far easier to hit than Soldiers. I don’t have complains though Im ok with that.
It was it trust me I made complaints on the forums regarding it being the only difference and wow how do u know right after I complained he got a buff. Sure it probably wasnt the soul reason. I know that bap had a huge impact on this buff though as well as double shield and goats.
Yes and therefor we should make every support far better at doing both damage and healing. Why should we even play soldier? we got bap he can do all soldier can but better. I disagree on this viewpoint.
It probably was to test out as they always do with any char or meta for that matter. It is in a way done to balance the game better in the future. Even though they know how the chars function they wont know how they truly play out in game. so they test it out, but without double shield bap will never be as effective as he was. Thats just kind of how it is. Buffing his damage (or firerate same thing) is not the solution. Spread also goes into whether or not a char does little or much damage.
Sure is harder to hit than Moira or brig yes.
- Brigs abilities however require precision and aim in a different way which is more about prediction.
- Moira needs tracking in her ult
- Zenyatta is one of the most aim intensive heroes in this game so I’m not sure what you’re talking about in this regard.
I think 55, faster healing and a different form of movement would be the solution
Edit: maybe 55 is a bit too much if we increase his healing firerrate too.
We don’t want what happened with mccree to repeat itself. A good example of what happens when firerate gets increased I might add. Fire rate as a buff can often be better than a simple damage buff.
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I think the real issue with Bap’s ultimate is that there isn’t an off healer that can utilize it’s bonus healing. That’s where it lacks compared to other support ults, it’s used mostly for damage boosting rather than healing because it’s so much more reliable to do that.
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THIS.
I honestly cannot think of any healer than can make use of it other than Ana, and if you’re going to run 2 main healers you’re going to be in a disadvantage.
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I just imagined a bap ult the size of Reims shield. And now I want that.
I feel like it could be good to reduce damage of enemies that shoot through it. It could be situational but he could help against protect the president/ bunker comps with that change too
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I consider Bap to be the worst support character and definitely think he needs some TLC. He has the longest cooldown times (and god knows why, I consider his abilities to be rather meh at best, including his ultimate which is best when combo’d with a good Zarya ult and lacklustre otherwise), and fairly poor healing rate.
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Realistically I don’t see a way to buff the Baptiste, I think devs have found a good spot for him already. They made a good buff to his ultimate, I have managed to get it up super fast and managed to get a surprise pick/mass heals on tanks faster than before.
If it is 100% neccessary to give him a buff it would be to increase his projectile speed (nade and IF as they go hand in hand) to help him heal Winston/Ball/Pharah etc. I wouldn’t touch his healing numbers or damage either.
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Yeah I agree with you Xaby. I think buffing him further would only make him broken.
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Well, in all honesty I see Bap too far from being broken. I suggest Blizzard try with him what they tried with Genji, give him a small buff and see how it goes from there.
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Bap needs a rework, but not a big buff. He only works in Doubelshield and still gets played in doubleshield, he needs to be more flexible
You don’t… You don’t see anything about overnerfed IF and regen burst or his grenade fire rate or like the nade splash that can be touched
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Immortality field is fine as it is right now. It used to be crazy good, 8 sec duration, 50 more hp, 20 sec cooldown. The cooldown starts when it’s thrown so its technically you could say that it’s actually 20sec cooldown in live. Fire rate is about the same as Ana, though Baptiste can use both damage and heal at the same time.
Regen burst though is kinda meh, it has always been very underwhelming. No indication how far the range goes, hard to know who has it active on them. I like that it heals less, because nade + regen burst has always been crazy good.
I feel like the whole 75 overtime heal could be even removed too and have it only be self-heal. Then the Fist bump could actually like buff his healing nades for the 5 sec duration or so, or maybe increase healing fire rate to compensate. Though making that change would probably make his kit very hard to understand for new players, as he has so many bells and whistles already.
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Not really an issue if more Supports are introduced that could utilize it, beyond Ana. Can’t really think of it in short-term limits.
It still wouldn’t be good. It’s very easy to stay out of LOS against it, and there’s still better options for increase damage without the limitations of Amp Matrix, even if they are lower. More people find Mercy’s damage boost and Ana’s Nanoboost more than sufficient and far more flexible than Amplification Matrix.
The basic problem here is that it would collide with Transcendence and Sound Barrier and their similarities. Same with changing Immortality Field to absorb a specific amount of damage instead of just keeping your team from dying. Too many similarities, overall; and it’s real problem with the Support-section of heroes. There’s just too much similarity between them and too many provide the same skills and utility with only Ana and Brigitte bringing uniqueness to the role.
Regen Burst has always been one of the strongest heals in the game. 30 healing per second over 5 seconds is huge. It cannot be understated about how big 30 damage mitigation is. Lucio’s Crossfade Amp covers 50 healing over 3 seconds but is limited to Crossfade’s radius. Baptiste can turn on Regen Burst and doesn’t need to be in range to maintain the full duration. and it restores 3/4ths of 4 members of your team’s health. It was incredibly powerful, and far more reliable than Biotic Orb. Combined with Ana’s Biotic Grenade, you were healing in ranges that even Valkyrie Mercy would have struggled to keep up with for 5 seconds.
One of the biggest problems with Baptiste is that he doesn’t really do anything that other Supports can do. Other Supports can boost damage, or provided incredible defense/mitigation through Ultimates. Other Supports can also provide strong area effect healing. A handful of Supports also provide movement speed boosts (Rally and Crossfade) and every Support has some increased movement speed boost, whether by ultimate (Transcendence, Rally) or through some cooldown ability (Guardian Angel, Fade). Nanoboost also used to provide a movement speed buff, and it had to be removed for a number of reasons.
The point still stands, however, in that Supports have a serious problem with homogenization of utility. Ana and Brigitte are one of those rare few Support heroes that provided something unique that other Supports did not have. Crowd control, and armor. Ana still has some of the more unique utility than other Supports don’t share.
Baptiste has nothing unique that isn’t already provided to someone else; whether by Ultimate or by regular ability. He has nothing unique to him, other than the basic fire of his gun (the only gun with recoil) and his basic healing (area effect healing grenades). And when you get down to it, his healing grenades are just a more common version of Ana’s biotic grenade with the utilitarian effects or damage added.
Short of a re-tool of Immortality Field and Amplification Matrix, there is not much that can be done without making Baptiste overpowering and having team’s played to his strengths. He can still heal extremely well if the team plays well with him and trends toward death-ball formations. That’s about it. Tweaking his healing is just going to cause problems. Offensively, they can probably make his gun a little easier to use for the masses (the highly-skilled or high-ranked players wouldn’t have much issue, either way and wouldn’t really benefit too much from it either); but the fact is, it’s just not his meta-game right now.
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