Can we add Inertia / Movement accel and Fix the animations

General Discussion
61

There may be ways that it is a better mechanic, but it blatantly does not address any of the things you claim it does, and your arguments have ignored many core features of Overwatch that are entirely absent from the games you’ve attempted to compare it to.

It would make projectile heroes harder, not easier, due to the movement abilities and hit models for heroes. It would make make hitscan heroes, particularly Widow and Ashe, far more prevalent, when you claim it would decrease their efficacy compared to projectiles. It would not negate AD spam, as even games like TF2, CSGO, and Tarkov all have variations of AD spam to rather prolific extents.

62

Movement acceleration would only make heroes like Widow more powerful. I don’t particularly enjoy the idea of that.

1 Like
63

I dont think it would make characters like Hanzo that much weaker you wouldnt have to aim as far ahead in other directions as they wouldnt gain speed fast enough meaning youd have less room for error

As you wouldnt have to predict over such a large area I dont know how to describe this though so maybe this doesnt make sense it would definetely make hitscans more powerful but my idea was that since it would also make projectiles better they would be more worthwhile playing since they do more damage with added consistency that would be somewhat better or the same viability

If I guess where the enemies head will be over a 10m area rather than a 5 m radius its going to be harder thats how distance and speed work the faster the character and the further the harder it is to aim with projectiles. Since they will move slower in other directions if they move quickly its easier to predict

Yeah thats somewhat true I agree, but I think with overwatch having more cover in OW2 it wouldnt be that much of an issue and then they could just nerf widow if its too bad but I think for the rest of the characters its better for and makes balance better

This is the only negative point I do agree with so far widowmaker would be better

64

Just consider something:
Why, in games like CSGO, Valorant, and TF2, are the main weapons nearly exclusively hitscan - while projectiles are almost exclusively explosives or other AoE based attacks?

I’ve covered movement mixups several times, I’m not going to repeat it again.

It wouldn’t though. That just wouldn’t happen.

I’ve given you like 7 examples of game design and why games on the scale of Overwatch - like CSGO, Valorant, and TF2 - have the mechanics they have in order to balance around these things.

If someone has, more or less, a single speed they can move at, you can very easily lead shots with projectiles.

You really don’t have to have some mega-IQ supercomputer brain to figure it out.

If characters can selectively change their speed to a greater degree of precision, while making use of movement abilities that also impact acceleration or outright instantly change position, it will become substantially harder.

Again, consider: CSGO, Valorant, and TF2 are almost exclusively hitscan based, and have very few abilities that instantly change a characters movement speed or direction, and the few that due have severe limitations on it such as round and economy restrictions. The abilities in those games are simply less powerful than the abilities in Overwatch. And because of the movement systems, projectile based attacks just are not as effective as hitscan without other added benefits such as a large hit radius.

I really shouldn’t even have to explain so much why this is the case - you can literally see the design choices and should be able to draw some form of a conclusion if you’ve actually played all of these games a serious amount. They are not the same games. The decisions made for each one were made for very good reasons. Each game has it’s own limitations, and has to be designed around those.

65

Yeah come on let’s be realistic here.

66

But in overwatch you can stop and start instantly in any directions making it very hard to predict you can stand still I shoot the bow you press A for a second all of a sudden your on the other side of the map.

I would assume its because its a more competitive game and they want to lower RNG I would also assume its because hitscan is easier to implement and requires less netcode and is easier for high pings and hit registration so probably because of that, also probably the fact that its a militaristic game on short maps so even if they had projectiles at that range theyd still hit instantly it doesnt fit the settings of the games hitscan or 0.001 ms projectiles its like the same thing they arent just going to add a bow to CSGO like overwatch are they its a military game.

I think its plenty realistic, first of all I dont think it will be an issue because in OW2 there will be a lot more cover and one less tank to help against dives you wont have an off tank so I think widow will be easier to pick off in OW2 anyway

But if it does come down to it.

67

If that were the case then TF2 and Valorant would have spray patterns and fewer, more restrictive ability types.

All of these game have projectile systems. It is not a question of implementation difficulty. The systems visibly already exist.

This depends on a lot of factors, but most games use “favor the shooter”, which can lead to mixed results between hitscan and projectile depending on if your perspective is a viewer, the shooter, or the target.

These things have nothing to do with one another - the style and theme of a game is hardly relevant to the implementations of mechanics - and realism would tend towards projectiles, because the real world does not have hitscan weapons.

It’s funny you only mention CSGO, since every other game mentioned literally has a bow.

68

Sorry I meant the “nerf Widow” part. Blizzard would never do that.

1 Like
69

Valorant does but its not an abillity based game to the degree overwatch is its more utillity like csgos smokes and flashes, so its more of Ashes dynamite and Sovas recon.

Projectiles more realistic but at that range bullets from guns are hitscan essentially so might as well just make them hitscan for better hit registration and competitiveness and in valorant CSGO a projectile would be useless because all the hitscan weapons already 1 tap to head.

70

its also the main reason hitscan dominates so much.

1 Like
71

Adding movement acceleration would be an enormous buff to hitscan - much more so than projectile.

72

Okay, this is a great step forward, you’re recognizing the differences between the games.

Now, let’s think about a game like Overwatch where there are numerous projectile based heroes, and how various factors relating to movement and netcode might therefore impact the efficacy of those heroes if those systems were made more complex or identical to these systems in CSGO and Valorant.

73

You make good points but I disagree with the underlining meaning in someways one is harder than the other but I think for Medium-High levels of play where players have good movement that projectile would be better with movement accel for low levels of play sure Projectiles are probably easier without movement accel.
Overal though it makes hitting targets easier across the board though and removes the RNG that is in this game you cannot consistently hit shots in this game if you think theyre going one way and they strafe another you cannot react in time in this game because its like a 1 frame transition.

74

Technically Quake has it but it’s very subtle. Or at least it was in 3.

Not sure about the older UTs. I don’t recall accel but my memory is a little hazy. The newest one (RIP) didn’t have it, although some people requested it and it culminated in debates like this. :rofl: I believe there were points when Halo didn’t have it either but not sure about the current game.

Accel isn’t better or worse. It’s just a stylistic choice that usually makes sense for SP stuff for realism and immersion. It’s in most games but not every game. Deathloop didn’t have it for instance – or at least if it did, it was so subtle I couldn’t detect it.

I get that ADAD is kind of cheesy. I don’t love it and don’t like having to do it myself, but I’m afraid the rest of the game would feel very different – and inferior for me personally – with accel. I started fiddling with Valorant lately and the movement is so damn slow compared to OW. :confounded: If anything I want OW to feel faster and more mobile.

If your main concern is Tracer, just fix her head animation during ADAD so her critbox isn’t offset from her body axis. This offset is why Tracer’s head is more difficult to target during ADAD than other heroes.

75

I mean, that’s just certifiably false.

Personally, I am capable of hitting shots consistently in this game. I mained Hanzo and Ashe at 3.9k on DPS when I played regularly, and could very consistently get headshots against all targets in the game, Tracer and Pharah included. And I’m not even that mechanically gifted compared to most high ranked players - my most played role by far is tank.

76

People aren’t even acknowledging the fact that AD spam is still prevalent in the majority of games that have movement accel - it’s a core way that CSGO’s movement works, it still fairly prevalent in Valorant, and it was everywhere in TF2.

Even games with more intense inertia and acceleration like Tarkov have some level of AD spam.

77

This is what I want it doesnt have to be CSGO level movement accel I just want a bit of accel so the frames are instant and it doesnt teleport.

Its for a lot more characters than tracer I actually find echo worse to headshot than tracer because her whole body sways with her and its incredibly hard to hit sombra because her head is so small when she changes directions her head actually teleports to her next position in 1ms.

Faster is fine more mobillity and higher default speed movement accel and speed are intertwined we could double the moving speed and still have movement accel. the only reason why we dont have higher default speed characters is probably because of lack of movement accel.

My accuracy is high too but its annoying to miss the other shots that dont hit because of it my accuracy is 65% with I think it was 15% crit but thats the average, that doesnt mean I dont miss headshots I shouldve hit if it wasnt for lack of movement accel it hurts to lose duels because of bad mechanics.

It is but its easier to react to and adjust and not as prevelent if you AD spam in Valorant you are practically standing still so you have to move more wisely and move more efficently and better rather than just mashing two keys. You have to move directions at intervals you think will be unexpected.

78

You’re losing those duels because of your bad mechanics, not the games.

This is an issue with character models and animations, not the movement system.

79

No its the game they spam AD and their headbox teleports because the character moves too swiftly in like 1 frame and isnt reactable, baby dva isnt hard to hit because of the hitbox or because of the speed shes hard to hit because of the animations and the lack of movement accel.

I can beat players with better aim because the mechanics of movement in this game are janky its RNG

https ://gyazo.com/067fe32f6a734e8d0cc3d7583b746134

This is the headhit box moving terribly see how much it moves in such a small amount of time for refrence this is on 0.25 speed so it would generally be doing this headbobbing 4 times as fast.
The head moved 5 times in 0.25th of a second or 20 times in a real time second that just isnt reactable Im afraid to tell you if you dont see the issue with that I dont know what to tell you.

The head teleports once in less than a a few ms I cant even be bothered to calculate it

80

Again - animation issue.

If you spam that fast on most heroes their models will not move substantially. This is mostly observed on heroes like Tracer and Ana because they physically lean into their movement, making a greater change in their headshot hitbox.

It literally just isn’t RNG, dude. You’re using that word wrong.

Again, this is an issue exacerbated by specific heroes animations and hitboxes.

Please show me the same view of Cassidy, or Reinhardt, or Zen.

Also, if you aim center of their strafe you will always headshot there with projectiles. Hitboxes and damage boxes are larger than the physical models you see, they are actually stretching out their headshot hitbox by doing that, spamming it that quickly simply isn’t as effective as you think it is, because you don’t understand the actual hitboxes of the heroes.