We need to counter swap you and pump everything into you to dam kill you if we don’t. You just walk through our team and kill all 5 players and there’s nothing we can do about it unless we hard target you. Like I’m sick of every 2nd match a tank crying about me going there counter. If you’re Winston, I’m not going to play Hanzo or Widow, am I? I’ll go back into spawn and swap Bastion, Torb, or Reaper just to deal with you blame the devs not me before u cry calling me a nob f word all because im playing the game the devs have made im not playing to lose so ill play to win dont like it dont play tank
21 Likes
Nah, they need to just remove tanks in general. They are the common denominator on what’s wrong with the game.
8 Likes
Sure.
Just don’t whine about q times when no one wants to tank
76 Likes
when theres one tank, it needs to be the raidboss to not feel terrible, thus dps needs to hard focus the tank and it feeds into this negative feedback loop until no one wants to play tank
tldr 5v5 makes tanking bad
51 Likes
100% your tanks worse u lose your tanks better u win your team counter swaps and hard targets there tank u win your team ignore there tank your tank has a bad time and you lose
3 Likes
Yeah I never understood the whole: “They’re counterswapping!!” complaint.
It’s a core game mechanic.
It’s supposed to happen.
7 Likes
yep its the same gameplay loop over and over like i dont want to counter swap over and over but im not going to play widow into a winton
duh, when the tank switches it would be stupid to keep forcing a character that isnt good against the tank, counterswapping is the meta in OW2 bc devs forgot what actual skill is
what makes it worse is when u get called slurs because u swap to deal with them just diving you all game like the gameplay loop is so bad atm
Hard counters are there for noobs to deal with people better than them.
2 Likes
brain dead take just say they have a winton my team has no brain and the winton is killing them over and over but im on widow how do you kill winton when he has 800 hp and im on widow
There’s counter swapping, and then there’s swapping after every… 1 or 2 deaths to a new hero to try and counter them. Or watching a tank swap from Reinhardt to Winston, and you immediately swap to Hog, and then they swap to Orisa and you swap to Zarya, etc.
It’s also something that saw a massive surge in OW2 compared to OW1.
9 Likes
You’re missing the point.
Nobody thinks counterswapping is objectively bad, like swapping off of Junkrat to Soldier to better deal with a Pharah is okay.
The issue that people complain about is that for tanks, counterswapping is too effective, across the board, as tank players are largely on their own.
Using the same example of Junkrat and Pharah, if the Junkrat is doing good and the opponent swaps to Pharah, suddenly the Junkrat cannot even play the game on that character anymore, as he is so hard-countered, he can’t fight back.
That’s what people complain about.
And that level of counterswapping is so common for tanks that they are never allowed to even play good on a character that they want to, because if they start having fun on someone like Doom, the opposing team will swap to Orisa, Sombra, etc, and suddenly the tank player is basically forced to swap to something he doesn’t want to play, or else he’ll just get bullied and rolled the rest of the game.
And it’s because of how objectively stupidly strong counterswapping against tanks is, is why so many people are now considering it dishonorable to counterswap, as when you counterswap against a tank, you are doing more than just trying to win, you are actively going out of your way to attempt to ruin his fun and gaming experience.
You might not see it that way, but that’s how he feels.
Like a Mercy getting spawn camped by a Sombra, it feels unfair, disrespectful, personal, and abusive.
13 Likes
I don’t think tank players are complaining about being counterswapped in general.
They are specifically complaining that if you play tank, the situation is that both tanks spend all match basically playing rock, paper, scissors with each other, which everyone agrees is boring and bad game design.
8 Likes
TBH I don’t even cry as a tank player because none of the matchups are as polarizing as tank players make it seem like. Obviously if you’re D.va and your DPS megafeeds their Zarya energy then the matchup becomes bad, but besides these few things you can generally play them together. Also swapping isn’t that bad, which OTPing is
But it is still way worse in OW1. If you played Winton in OW1 and they went Hog then you would still have a D.va as your friend to counter their Hog and so on. The 2nd tank made it so that countering was way less effective and maps largely decided tank advantage. Not that even they mattered since Ball/D.va was the best tank comp towards the end, but not even T500 played it often because of how hard it was to master these 2 heroes and then play them together compared to more classic tank comps
1 Like
I personally feel that it’s different for other roles to swap to deal with the tank than it is for tanks to keep swapping to counter each other. If a DPS swaps Bastion to pop barriers or Sombra/Cass to deal with a hypermobile tank, that’s fine in my book. If a support swaps to Ana to shut down my Ram, I respect that.
What sucks is when Tank A comes out of the gate as rock only to run into Tank B’s choice of paper, so A is supposed to swap to scissors. At which point B is pressured to swap to rock. So A is nagged at to swap to paper, resulting in B feeling the need to swap to rock. Which means (continues forever)
If anything, countering in other roles is a good thing in my book. If I chose Zarya and a Rein emerges from their spawn, I’m very happy to have one of our DPS say to themselves, “Okay, I will switch to a barrier buster to help out our tank.” If I chose Ram and vermin comes hurtling out of the blue at nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine miles per hour, I’m very happy to have a Cass or Sombra alongside me. It makes it less likely that I myself have to swap.
5 Likes
Here’s the thing OP. If someone is stomping your team like that they’re far better, you deserve to lose and everyone swapping to hard counters just isn’t competitive.
You’re just crutching on enormous game changing advantages because you lacked the skill to deal with that player on even footing.
Tanks are 100% right in their complaints about this and it’s time everyone stopped pretending like it’s ok. It isn’t ok for someone to do absolutely nothing all game, swap to a hard counter and suddenly get enormous value even though they’re by far the worse player. Why would anyone find dealing with that fun or engaging? Nobody enjoys that and I’m tired of pretending like it’s a remotely reasonable argument.
Something needs to fundamentally change because this isn’t sustainable.
8 Likes
Doesn’t matter.
It’s literally a core mechanic. It’s the way the game was supposed to be played. Some people are going to swap once or twice, others will swap multiple times. You need to accept that some players are going to play that way, as annoying as it may be for you.
It’s the exact opposite of a one-trick player. The player who tries to be a jack of all trades, counterswapping every possible time they have an opportunity. The good thing is, most players who do counterswap that often, aren’t very good at the heroes they’re swapping to, so you can outplay them if you’re at least competent with your chosen hero.
1 Like
I believe what tanks hate most, is the hard reliance on a flaky team when constantly being countered by the enemy. At that point unless your own team is aware, willing and able to swap and change strategy as necessary, everything becomes very anti-fun and toxic.
Heavy dependency on team synergy for both having fun and having impact on your rank, is the worst part of OW by far. This community is not the right audience for that kind of game, even more so now that it’s free.
1 Like
Can Team 4 bring back 6v6?
4 Likes