So it seems both burst healing and damage are going to get nerfed, and or reworked in some way.
I am kind of interested what this might mean for say Hanzo or widow, if not something like headshot damage as a whole. But that’s just a few weeks away
I don’t think of it in terms of dmg vs healing or dps vs supports. I just want the overall tkk we encounter to be more consistent. If that means some dmg needs to get nerfed in order for supports to get the nerfs this game desperately needs then so be it.
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Healing and damage spikes need to be nerfed down. And I dont speak about Mercy or Weaver and more about what Ana and Bap can heal. Nade or regen burst provide such a massive heal boost, that its impossible to kill something WITHOUT burst damage. This also goes mostly for their primary heal.
So the typical supports who have too high healing that would needed to be nerfed are: Ana, Bap, Illari and in terms of “burst” maybe tune Brig packs burst down and transfer it into HoT like it was before.
But in terms of DPS heroes that would need to be nerfed in terms of burst damage… people will not like it: Hanzo, Junk, Torb, Mei, Soj, Bastion, Pharah and multiple others. Basically everything that does more than 100 or more damage per shot. Kiriko also would need to be nerfed. Same for Illari.
Tanks dont have any kind of problematic damage, but Maugas and Hogs heal is too high. As soon as Anas nade is nerfed to not be crazy OP, those two need also be nerfed.
In the end they have to gut Ana, the mass/sudden heal supports, burst DPS and the two most self-sufficient tanks.
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Nobody wants to admit it, but OW shares a lot of elements with Mobas,
Queue Greyfalcon rant
Honestly, I’m not even sure that was the problem. Double Barrier was enabled by high poke damage.
If a Rein could have just closed the distance without his barrier being busted by the ashe and soldier, then he would have been able to just hammer right through all the barriers. The solution to double barrier was to make Brawl better and to nerf poke.
Hopefully it seems that way yeah, I can’t wait to be honest.
They’ve definitely mentioned looking at this before and Aaron mentioned in this tweet about damage spikiness and the strength of healing. So it does seem that’s exactly what we’re going to get. I’m curious to see how far they’re going to go with this to be honest.
I think healing has been too strong in general for ages.
They did say this when they were playing around with that 25% in combat healing reduction during Alpha testing and that, so it seems like they initially thought healing was too strong during the beginning. As OW2 has gone on I kind of wish they hadn’t completely just scrapped where they were going with this. I don’t necessarily think it should have stayed as this blanket in combat healing reduction because it would have made some Supports feel a lot worse than others - like Lucio doing 11hps & Mercy doing 37.5hps during “combat”. But they could have eventually tuned Supports individually after testing different numbers and stuff.
I also think it’s good they’re looking at certain instances of burst damage as well - which in my opinion should definitely be looked at along with the healing nerfs.
I just hope they aren’t too timid with their changes.
Really supports need their passive removed and not added to everyone.
Plus these support nerfs
- Bapt needs his heal ability to be over time only again
- Kiriko need her suzu not to burst heal as much
- Ana nade needs to be pushed even more into offence only so less heal burst/%
- Zens health reverted to 200
- Brigs packs turned into over time only again
- Rez to take longer/shorter based on health pool being brought back and doesnt bring back shield/armor.
It’s wild how people have been convinced that burst damage, which typically takes players from 100 to 0 before anyone can react…Is countered by healing. It isn’t.
Healing and invulnerabilities counter predictable and sustained damage but not real burst.
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I am curious how nerfing burst damage goes. Because even if they do I still don’t see at least widow losing her one shot. So even if burst damage is nerfed. That just means a lot of middle of the pack dps get hard nerfed. Idk.
I hate comparing overwatch to paladins because they are massively different, but paladins does seem to have gotten the balance between heals and damage right, the damage in paladins in on average lower than it is in overwatch and healing is mostly relegated to abilities not primary/secondary weapon fire (apart from a couple of character builds) the game also has out of combat healing, ~10 hp/s. the ttk is slightly longer as a result but it is still a fast paced game heck it even has immortality abilities but they don’t feel as bs in that game.
Most of what I write is me just venting my takes into the void some of which are just rants when I’m queuing but if there is one hill I will die on its that overwatch has nothing in common with MOBAs the only similarity is that it has cooldowns.
I mean I only play smite but from that I can gleam there is
No laning phase where you are left to do your job and set yourself up for lategame. No distinction based on hero’s scaling early mid and late game, No playing around/stealing buffs or major objectives, No farming/ getting ahead or behind and capitalising on a lead, No items and builds, No ganking and rotations made to catch people out.
There are so many ways to deal with things in a moba while the mobaism in overwatch extend to positioning before a teamfight and if someone’s out of position they die because it just doesn’t have the things in it that make a mobas work. Its why CC had to get scaled back massively all the MOBA-ish aspects of overwatch have always been seen as awful leaned to heavily into to much. The game doesn’t have the mechanics to support itself when it leans to heavily into its mobaism things (its hard to describe)
This doesn’t happen though unless multiple people are shooting someone at at once (in which case its fine to have someone blow up unless its ridicules stuff like a tank vanishing) but most the complains are about stuff like hanzo and I think that’s nuts.
And this would be awful I am on the other end of the spectrum and believe that characters like lifeweaver should have their damage upped and/or spread tightened and every support needs to do damage now. The best supports for a while now have been Ana, Bap and Kiri and anytime its been a support that can get their value from pumping heals its been awful eg mercy when she was good. I think supports need to do damage i think Bap and Kiri are good for the wrong reasons but they are still good. (Illari will go off when a poke meta comes up trust me) supports in this game need damage now to compete and if the best supports are the best supports because their healing output is high it will feel MISRIBLE imo.
Dude this playerbase is hiveminded supports will argue a broken support that is popular is fine as do players on other roles look at when mercy was good early in ow2 or when people were saying brig was fine for so long when she blatantly wasn’t. (although both the examples are supports its not exclusively support players, just mostly) im kinda saying the current support hivemind has take is “burst damage is too high” stance and its wrong.
Yes they are overwatch very much does have a overton widow and if you have a take that is outside of that this community you are not taken seriously.
That feel when it’s mostly Tanks and DPS players who actually complain about burst damage, but go off on that tribalism I guess
True, Immortality abilities do contribute to in-combat sustain. I don’t think they’re the primary factor, though. Maybe they are in high-level play, but this happens in Quick Play with most any healer combo. Smart player need only duck around a corner, and come back out fully healed. Tanks take a BIT longer, but not by that much.
While some Supports have limits on their healing, I’d argue that’s not most of them. Kiriko and Lifeweaver have very little cooldown, Ana and Baptiste have a quick reload and Iliari’s Pylon can heal constantly as long as it’s well-positioned. Realistically, it’s mostly Moira, Iliari’s Heal Rifle and Brigitte’s Repair Pack which suffer from downtime.
See, I don’t actually mind having a lot of “sustain” in the game. Few things are as depressing as running around at 50 Health on a Tank trying to find a Healer or a Pack, only to get tagged by a random Moira Skill Orb or a wayward Junkrat Grenade. It’s why I kind of wish Blizzard had gone through with their planned “50% heal reduction in combat” system that got leaked during the pre-Beta period of Overwatch 2. It would have given us a lot of “sustain” without also making us immortal in combat. It would have also been hideously unpopular at a time when it felt like DPS were all that mattered.
Burst healing is fine but dps players will get it nerfed.
Anyway, correct thing to do is to nerf both healing and damage in the game globally if anything, which is apparently what they’re going for.
If you would only nerf the healing of support heroes, that would indirectly buff all supports that have decent damage output compared to “healbot” supports. Bap, Kiriko, Illari would most likely just run rampant.
This is what I want.
Well yeah. imo baptiste and illari are too much of hybrid heroes; its not good if a support “utility” is just damage basically. They should instead create supports that provide value by, well, healing and supporting by other means than just damage.
I mean, after Illari was released, it seemed to break the floodgates on “supports are broken”, so feels like to me the playerbase does not know what they want supports to be.
imo there should be bigger distinction between the roles on what they bring to the table.
Zen is the exception, imo he is a “damage oriented” support done properly. But that really should be a rarity.
Im not saying supports should be “pure healbots” either, naturally. anyway its all more on just how you think a game of Overwatch should look like between the roles - in my view we have had too many kind of hybrid heroes that blur the lines both in support and tank.
Except people are constantly crying about support utility as well
I mean Mercy gets rez off as often as some heroes use their ultimates, yet “OMG SO OP AN UNHEALTHY”
Suzu? Grip? Discord?
With Lucio/ Ramattra comps becoming meta I’m waiting for the “Speed Boost is broken” to start up soon too
Well yes, but, imo the complaints never were so loud than after Illaris release. ie. many dps players just started playing Illari instead, etc.
Granted, of course, she was overtuned at release as well - but she’s a hero that basically brings no other utility besides damage. Even her ult is just a dps ult.
But anyways, supports mainly in my view should be doing supporty-things.
A lot of high rank players are not happy about Kiriko, and I’d just nerf her weapon and keep her support-side of the kit as is.
I might be on the minority on this, or not, depends I suppose who you ask.
There are support players who play the role because they actually want to support / heal their teammates and not focus on dealing damage.
And there could be added skill expression options as well.
Like, why is Ana basically still the only support that has to aim on her teammates to heal? etc.
I feel that in overwatch 2 the role of support has fundamentally changed as the game is more open and lots of characters within the role need to be adapted to feel better to play against within that format because the only way lifeweaver, mercy or moira can be good is if their healing numbers are inflated over the current best crop of supports as they will never be able to offer utility better than suzu, immortality or anti, unless mercys rez becomes over important which I think would be a bad thing.
The only way I can think of making them compete without sending their numbers through the roof is
- give them pick potential to the same degree as the good supports but lose some healing
or - gut ana, bap and kiri
I would rather 1 than 2 because tbh i think the best supports should be supports in the mold of ana and bap.
Imo not anymore they did not adapt him to 5v5 well at all
One of my main gripes about the support lineup is that if you want to play a support who has has (or gets to) aim to heal their teammates, you have still only one option - Ana.
That’s such a big thing of “skill expression” that blizzard keeps missing for some reason.
Yeah, imho LW could definitely have had some offensive utility cooldown - most support utilities could have use either offensively or defensively like Ana’s anti nade can.
But Suzu, Life grip etc are all pretty much defensive cooldowns; that also makes them kind of less interesting to use - much less thought involved.
And sure there are some things in some support heroes cooldowns that could use tuning.
Just my last point about the damage oriented supports is that:
Arguably 3 out of 4 last support have been quite damage oriented ones, and people just arent happy. To me that tells that people dont really want that out of supports after all.
It might just be that Blizzard is out of ideas on new supports that what they would do.
Or they have wanted to “cater” to other players than the players who enjoy healing, like Kiriko was originally marketed as a “support that dps players will enjoy playing”.