Importantly, not the actual DPS or TTK (most of the time) but their own survivabillity and utility, simply speaking, for example if most DPS had their HP increased by 25 and armor/shields for some, maybe some of the aggro and peel responsibility would be disperse from tanks and into DPSes. (of course it would be case by case, not just HP increases, mobility, survivability and utility, sometimes a bit more dmg)
I think one of the biggest issues on OW (and not just OW2) is that the tank role just has too much on their hands and the DPS role is often just on the wayside, often the least impactful role, isnt the solution to that then, buffing DPS to have a more balanced role impact?
Maybe the latest 10% damage buff on Tracer is a step on the right direction in that sense, since Tracer already has so much survivability, she doesnt need more but some characters might.
Maybe even lean in the Support power creep as well and buff the other non strong supports as well to even out that part of the game as well.
And no, dont even start with the role tribal stuff, i’m a flex player and couldnt care less about that.
Symmetra, one of the most niche DPS in the game, got her HP nerfed and no-one seems to care despite needing it to work
Soldier, by far the best DPS in the game at the moment got his heal station cooldown nerfed, and people were saying that he didn’t need it nerfed at all
Pretty sure its strictly because Symm is so niche that people didnt care, since people dont play her to begin with, Symm is a exceptional case as well i think, her kit has some inherent problems that needs work on and they make balancing her quite a challenge.
Again, i think decreasing TTK or targetting supports is not the answer, i think survivability/utility and mobility maybe best, that way, DPS dont get as overbearing for supports (maybe even less so since they would need less healing) and help tanks by taking some aggro away, while being overral stronger.
Survivability adds to the problem of nothing dying. DPS as a role is supposed to get kills, not live forever. The entire point is to be more or less a glass cannon.
Stuff not dying as quick is prolly what the game needs though, specially if the stuff itself is the DPS, mind you if the DPS lives for longer, they also deal damage for longer, its not like you’re upping the survivability of the other 2 roles.
And having only the DPS characters not die as easily would help with that.
Not exactly, the DPS role is meant to be less durable than the tank in holding space, it doesn’t meant they are supposed to be glass cannons, alot of DPSes can run away or play from range to live for longer, thats also a important part of the role that can be buffed.
I think you’re missing the fact only the DPS would have more survivability, them living for longer and dealing more damage in the long run would absolutely result in things dying more often that they do right now, since the DPS are the minority, though maybe in a way that makes playing the other two roles not insufferable.
One could argue having DPS live for longer would make the tanks and supports have to deal with getting targetted more often but they also have their own DPS more often to help peel/make space so i think it balances that out.
No, it wouldn’t. Because then there’s no one that can die early and end a fight. All it does is take away skill expression.
The game literally describes them as “fearsome but fragile.” DPS are meant to die easier than both other roles.
But they can’t survive pressure from multiple people, which is the point. DPS already win their 1v1s through higher damage. The only thing buffing survivability would do is make them better against multiple people, which is a very bad idea.
No. Mobility creep is so much worse than power creep because it DIRECTLY leads to more cc. And NO HITSCAN NEEDS RANGE BUFFS. WE ARE NOT LETTING THEM PLAY FURTHER AWAY. That’s the entire problem with Widow. No.
I’m not missing this. I’m saying it’s a bad idea. As it is now, the best targets to dive and pick off early are DPS. That’s how you snowball fights. Remove that and several comps just stop being good.
No, it doesn’t. Because now everyone has good survivability. This only makes fights last longer.
The supports? also its not like the dps would sunddenly become tanks, i said something in the lines of 25 extra HP, not a 1000 HP shield.
Obviously.
No, buffing survivability makes them better in general tbh.
If the power creep is done well and balanced, we shouldnt need to have compesatory CC increases and even if we do, it could still be enjoyable to play.
Again, i never said to remove that aspect, reduce it, help it, so that DPS are less of a cosmetic role, so that tanks dont take so much aggro and supports are actually just better DPSes that can heal (sometimes)
You can buff dps to the moon but it doesn’t matter when abilities like suzu, lamp and grip exist. The design of those abilities needs addressing. Supports shouldn’t be able to say “no” to somebody dying regardless of the damage they’re about to take.
It definetly could help with that, if one would survive long enough so that the immortality runs out/break the lamp or can bait them out more often, they would have more tools to deal with said things.
I think the most reasonable thing to try to help DPS a bit is give them a slower version of out-of-combat heal (compared to supports), to give them a little more independence. I don’t really think raising health/armor for most DPS would be a good thing for the game, but with conservative numbers, a passive heal like this shouldn’t really break anything.
I’m thinking start with a 4-5 second delay and half heal rate compared to supports and see how it goes.
But for reference, I do not actually believe DPS are really underpowered, or that Supports have seen tremendous power creep, or that the argument of which role is most impactful is relevant with fixed role counts in normal play. DPS landing their shots will destroy Supports in the majority of matchups. Despite some supports having damage perceived as high (and some of those perceptions are flatly false), DPS as a whole have more tools to do damage and more damaging primary weapons.
25 shield health or extra hp won’t change that the dps just had their kill denied, is now probably in a vulnerable position, probably has few if any cooldowns and will likely now die.
Dps need to take risk to secure kills. 25 extra shields or whatever changes nothing when your kill was just denied by some support who appeared through 8 walls and said no by looking at the ground. You’re going to die in that situation no matter what your hp is almost every single time.
It could work but that way supports get less importance and even just the whole design of the game gets a pretty significant change with health packs being less important, etc, the end result would have DPS being more survivable, no? increasing the HP also does that.
I think its a big factor as to why the tank role is so miserable to play though, role impact distribution would not only help with balance in general i think but also the enjoyment of all the roles.
But it absolutely could help them live enough to then get another shot at it though, you cant underestimate the power of a 25HP change can have but of course, it would be a case by case, some characters would benefit more by upping their other means of surviving, like for example giving Cass invulnerability on his roll, or increasing the range of Genji’s dash for example.
And having more HP/mobility or whatever to take greater risks could absolutely help with that, it absolutely matters how much HP you have alot of the time.
If you think Supports are dying early, you’re playing in Bronze.
No. Any impactful mobility will increase cc. And I’m not ok with that.
DPS isn’t even in a bad state. Supports are. That’s why reducing their healing on a passive helps the problem. Buffing survivability just adds to the problem.
Earlier than the tanks, on paper that is, of course the tanks will usually die to give space for both supports usually but still, its still a target to go for if the DPSes arent an option, again its not like i want DPS to suddenly become immortal, just more survivable enough to make a small dent wich is what i think is the size of the gap in impact.
Thats not true, they are not mutually inclusive, its not a necessity to increase CC if the mobility increase is fair.
DPS is definetly in a bad state, not a terrible one but its the least impactful role, wich impacts the whole game, there are multiple ways to go about fixing that, either nerf supports and tanks or buff them, i think its easier to buff them.