Buff for Baptiste's Primary Fire?

He isn’t much played character and the primary fire is kinda undertuned. The total output of damages is lower than Lucio (even with crappy accuracy), Zen, Moira und Brigitte.

The number of damage per pellet is fine, but the gun has slow fire-rate plus it required to control the recoil per burst. Not easy to hit all 3 with very small hitbox, if the target is moving sidewards or far away because the recoil doesnt let you have perfectly fixed pin-point aim.

Current fire-rate is 0.65 sec per burst. May it needs a bit faster to 0.55 sec?
(Lucio has 0.4 sec of fire-rate, Zen same.)

What do you think?

1 Like

I think his primary is fine once you get over 30% accuracy with at least 10% crits.

5 Likes

I have 43% accuracy with 11 hours with him on this season. Still it feels the output is way too low. 9% crits as average.

It prevents players from using him like Soldier.

3 Likes

Lucio and zen are projectile so making his fire rate the same might be a little unfair. And he already can do a ton of healing in the right comp

2 Likes

What if we reduced or removed recoil?

4 Likes

Even the best damage output I reached over 9k damage (its top 1% damage) plus average 43%. Soldier you can easy reach 20k damage with a good accuracy.

True, but the hitbox is big compare to Baptiste who has the hitbox of pin.

I personally think he does great damage for being the only support with a hitscan weapon. Especially if you hit 1 body + 2 crits per shot.

Also his ultimate charges really really quickly. Use his ultimate for yourself rather than waiting ages to get a perfect line-up with the rest of your team. By that time you could have almost half another one saved up. Also it’s easier for the enemies to use area attacks when everyone is clumped together. ML7 did this a lot and he’s a great Baptiste. You can 2-tap squishies by yourself with his ultimate.

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Considering you need to mentally and muscolarly switch between hitscan and heavily arched projectile, I too think his primary fire could use an improvement. I’m fine with the ROF, I’m fine with the damage, but considering both these things and the previously noted aim difference between primary and secondary, I would get rid of the vertical recoil. It’s manageable, don’t get me wrong, but feels like another unnecessarly thing added to his kit to make it more difficult/skilled.

I actually think his primary fire puts out a good bit of damage for a support

In terms of controlling the recoil, one thing I learned from mL7 playing Baptiste is to get in the habit of VERY slightly pulling down on your mouse when you left-click. This will compensate for the recoil pretty nicely

It takes some practice for it to become second nature while actually in a fight, and I’m still working on it. It’s almost second nature for me when I’m shooting at things in the distance. But when a Genji or Tracer comes a flankin’, I start to spaz out and just focus on landing the damn shots lol

Practice in the Target Range first to see how much you need to pull down on your mouse to compensate.

2 Likes

Control recoil every shot makes you exhausted, to remove it is comfort but I would rather pick reduced because I want to hit Tracer who harasses supports steadly.

On paper, but in the reality the hitbox of target is constantly moving up and sidewards.

True, the ultimate is fastest but I use it usually for healing. 60 HP per Shot is not enough for Reinhardt, DVA and other tanks who are in team-fighting.

I know that trick, thats why I have very good accuracy but you will not much damages in total.

Considering his healing output is comparable to Moira (main healer) or Mercy (ostensibly a main healer), his damage output is arguably a little too high.

Getting 9-10k damage per match with 15-20k healed is crazy stats for an average performance out of a support hero.

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Soldier is a damage character, Baptiste is a support

Why would Baptiste need to put out as much damage as Soldier?

The difference here is most Baptiste players focus on healing. Lucio may average more damage total, but that’s because he doesn’t have to actively heal and damage at the same time, he can crossfade to heal song to top off teammates while taking pot shots at the enemy. Baptiste puts out more reliable damage in short bursts, and while my Baptiste doesn’t put out as much damage as my Lucio, I can tell you my Baptiste definitely confirms more kills.
Zen puts out damage as his job I wouldn’t compare Baptiste to Zen. Baptiste’s job isn’t dishing out damage, his job is keeping the team healed up. Zen tosses a healing orb, forgets about it until it’s recalled, and then holds LMB
Brig only heals if she’s dealing damage so she’s also constantly dealing damage
Moira can also put out a lot of damage easily since her orbs lock on to multiple targets and her alt fire requires very little aim, this is also how she refills her heals so she’s forced to do damage often but her low dps doesn’t let her confirm many kills

The game, to my knowledge, doesn’t track final blows on supports so I can’t verify this, but my assumption is that’s what’s going on, because he gets more value out of healing, people focus on healing instead of damage, but he can still burst down targets quickly, and I imagine he probably has the most final blows/solo kills

Anyone I’ve shot at with Bapt would disagree…

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Yep, as I said, you get used to it. The first times? Jesus, it’s almost impossible to switch from secondary to primary and be accurate. It’s basically full panic, like when I had a ulting McCree in front of me, I actually healed him instead of shooting him D: or when a Tracer/Genji started to dance around, man it was painful to adjust the aim to hitscan, like you aim way higher like you’re trying to land a projectile, and must remember about the vertical recoil too.

Now that he is my most used healer, things are definitely better, but I still think that considering the rate of fire and the 3-burst choice/limitation, that damn vertical recoil feels like it is too much to deal with, considering the rest. I’d actually trade some damage for it to go.

his gun feels terrible. its feels like trying to shoot with 300ping. jerky, disjointed and no reggy. kudos on the designers for capturing what shooting with high ping feels like but ill pass on playing him for the same reason.

Can’t argue with that

I’m still trying to git gud with him. I average around 9K in damage with him, but I’m only averaging around 9K in heals which is way lower than the average you stated, and coincidentally what I averaged as Moira)

I definitely catch myself trying to do too much damage that has definitely led to some of my teammates dying here and there, so I need to mitigate that.
When i’m Moira, I just focus on healing and do damage to 1) recharge my heals, 2) peel for my fellow healer, 3) finish off a squishy, or 4) defend myself against a flanking Genji or Tracer (surprisingly easy at lower ranks lol)

I would be ok with a slight damage reduction for less recoil. It doesn’t feel good on the hand muscles but that might just be me.

HAHA oh man, I do that all the damn time…definitely requires practice

I guess it’s just me, but it actually feels VERY satisfying for me when I’m pulling down on my mouse as I left-click haha

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