"buff all projectiles, nerf all hitscans"

General Discussion
1

Why is this such a common suggestion? do people want to ruin the game or something?

do people really want spamrat? “go hitscan or get rolled”? “too many cc’s and one shots in his kit”? the devil? the turret buddies?"nanobladewatch? spamzo to be top meta picks? And since some people consider bastion and sombra to not be considered part of the hitscan clan, let’s make them meta as well!

every single projectile hero is spammy, and/or has too much cc in their kit.

It makes widow look like a fun hero to play against lol.

I shiver at the thought of this. The game would be destroyed.

And projectiles aren’t even that bad right now. Why do I always hear “hitscans stupidly op, projectiles trash” when they literally aren’t even that bad.

Oh and that hitscan bias alright!! Ashe received 5 nerfs but yeah hitscan bias. What about widows 7 nerfs? Yeah hitscan bias. Even mcree got some big nerfs and was trash for a while. What about soldier? When was the last time he’s ever been meta? S3? hitscan bias guys!

22 Likes
2

How about no buffs for 4 months straight?

9 Likes
3

I dislike this suggestion because not every projectile and hitscan are the same.

30 Likes
4

Projectile players are very biased. They have a lot of resentment and jealousy because hitscan is easier to aim with that they forget projectile has its own benefits. That narrative would challenge their view, though, and we can’t have that. So hitscan bad.

20 Likes
5

:smirk:

7 Likes
6

Nanoblade watch is not going to happen, I can promise you. The only reason it was a thing was because they gave Genji four net buffs without any nerfs. Now that he has an ult cost nerf, they can buff his main kit. Nanoblade is 2 ultimates that can be shutdown with one. It’s not going to be the meta

1 Like
7

Hitscan is simply more well designed. Medium skill floor, borderline infinite high skill ceiling.

Projectiles are just spammy annoyances with generally lots of CC in their kit.

I’m just saying if he became meta we’d see nano blade watch again, regardless of whether he gets buffed or nerfed or whatever happens.

5 Likes
8

When the Doom player complains about CC, you just know something is so fundamentally off with the game…

5 Likes
9

No. Nanoblade is too easily countered. It is 2 ultimates that can be shutdown by one. It can be strong it’s 2 ults

10

Idk, I think it sucks balls that if your team has two projectile heroes that the instant solution for the enemy hitscan is to go Pharah, forcing you to go hitscan

Bad game design

6 Likes
11

Oh, trust me, I hate it. I did so much projectile this season, and lawd have mercy for all those who abused that fact, for they are going to the deepest circle of hell. I am just kidding Pharah mains, I love you.

12

I mean… there IS a hitscan bias. We’ve seen more than a few times when a non-hitscan gets used in OWL, they get nerfed… hard. Do you remember when Mei was used in OWL and was immediately hit with like 8 back to back nerfs despite on ladder never actually overperforming? Meanwhile we have the McCree issue now. Some claim Mei is currently meta. But that isn’t the case. It’s just the meta best for her. McCree still has a pick rate nearly 7 times higher. And that’s in the meta best suited for the projectile character. If even at their best, the hitscans are STILL better, what does that suggest?

15 Likes
13

Two different skillsets, of which OW is a mixture. Aim vs. brain.

You have on-demand aim like snapping, flicking, tracking common to hitscans (with some people specialist in flickshots but not tracking). And for projectiles you have a ton of prediction, ballistic correction, and premption.

And that’s just the aim side of the coin. Then there are the brains. Where projectiles typically had bigger brain kits with more utility and proactive decision making, vs. the lightning fast reactionary nature of scan.

To me it’s best to look at what comps/metas are in play. I think the idealized comps are hybrids would have 1 proj and 1 hitscan dps, for some aoe spam value and some on-demand burst - with similar min/max on the tank/support roles as well. It’s no fun to see 2 hitscan every match because aiming and clicking well just outclasses everything you can do with your brain.

4 Likes
14

I would be into projectile buffs if the projectile heroes that come to mind were less spammy. I love projectiles, I don’t love spam.

I think hitscan are just easier to have be stronger, because there’s not that much to balance.

15

Because the top is full of hitscans, and that hitscans possess massive amount of advantage when it comes to hits alongside very little weakness/downside? Like when you reach the above plat, hitscans really start to shine and reaching level where you either run your own hitscan or just lose?

I also find it funny that you think you can’t spam hitscan, you can. Suppressive fire is a thing, more so when you put it down at an enemy.

We already seen tons of example of hitscans being dominant, the only time a hitscan wasn’t dominant was the bunker/double shield comps where they run Mei/Reaper.

Do we also have to point out that McCree has a hard CC and is currently taking the top? Or Ashe having an insane dynamite that use to do 175 damage before she got nerf? That Widow is basically THE dominant force that all comps are often built around? Soldier is perhaps the only exception and even he had the limelight when he was he only viable DPS to be run in World of Tanks meta.

The nerfs Ashe receive also took a whole year as she received buffs after buffs to compete with Widow prior to that. She’s still strong due to her ult and capability to build up Bob, NVM with how many tools that she has in dealing with dive tanks. Her only problem is that there’s a better option, Widow.

Widow remained so darn dominant with little of the traditional sniper weaknesses but all the strengths. The nerfs she got was peanuts and the largest one she got so far was the 25 hp minus which finally put her into the category of dealable.

McCree was also often used a lot, and had received tons of buffs/nerfs. He’s also the current dominant pick in ladder.

Let’s not even talk about Tracer, who received little to no nerfs beyond her ult going from 400 - 350 damage.

Soldier is also isn’t weak, he’s just outclassed by other hitscans.

You right on not buffing projectiles as the projectiles isn’t weak but as it is, the hitscans need to be nerfed first because they’re too darn strong.

6 Likes
16

But they have to be kind of spammy because they’re not landing shots on-demand.

Projectiles try to force resource mismatches and/or overload support APM/decision making. Projectiles force out macro-type sub-optimalities (like major cds or ult economy) rather than hitscans, which edge out micro type mistakes (brief LoS oopsie). Hitscans provide reliable consistent damage and/or on-demand burst/elim threats. Which utility is better most of the time? Seems like pick potential in organized play i.e. top hitscan.

You can code smart bots in the workshop that dodge EVERY projectile (at range). You can even run them on live, because it only takes 10ms to interdict the gpu framebuffer and extrap where the projectile wants to go, and have your hitbox move 1 pixel out of the way. They already have all this client-server projectile tech baked in to lag-compensate the shooter (and if you ask me, rigg the projectile registration for bronze/console players).

2 Likes
17

So I’m thinking of other games with projectiles in which the projectiles are either superior or balanced with hitscan, and in those games, they’re still ‘spammy’ in the sense that you’re using them predictively, or they can be used to kamikaze blast everything around you, but there are some differences between those and the projectiles in Overwatch.

In Overwatch, they’ve really limited a lot of options with choke points and a lack of routing. Combined with infinite ammo, large blast radius, randomly bouncing projectiles, and infinite range, they’ve kind of boxed themselves into a corner with how successful projectiles can be allowed to be, I think.

Let’s take Pharah at random, I guess? Rocket launchers in other games are fantastic. High damage, can be used predictively, good up close, help with mobility, buuuuut they’re used a lot more in really awesome skill shots, where you bounce someone up in the air and then hit them mid-air, and it’s powerful but it isn’t oppressive, because you can’t just hammer someone who is essentially forced to take a predictable path infinitely in those games. Pharah plays further back a lot of time and can rain down those long distance rockets. If you have to ferry a bunch of people through a choke point and she gets to just spam those down for free…I don’t think it’s easy to make her powerful without making the game not fun for a lot of other people. Add in a Mercy with minimal effort, and that spam becomes a horror show.

Long story short, I feel like the maps and play style of this game make having good projectiles very difficult. Whereas with hitscan, they can just adjust a few variables and call it a day. To make projectiles better, you would have to either fundamentally change how projectiles work, or the game modes themselves. Is the sense I have.

1 Like
18

Despite the anti-hitscan nature of the forums, they’re mostly balanced. It’s just Cree that needs his 25hp reverted. Hanzo you could argue revert storm arrow buff. That’s it.

19

buff your capabilities instead

20

Projectile and Flex heroes are mostly balanced. Nerf hitscans.