Bring back offense and defense

[jotaro-11439]

Was browsing through the forums until I saw a golden reply

@Yin-1797

No. In general, their designs were built around the idea of countering other damage heroes, not Tanks, or specifically Supports. Junkrat was specifically built to shutdown highly mobile heroes like Tracer or Genji. Not specifically Winston or Wrecking Ball (for that to work, Junkrat would need to reload two or three times, just to get past the barrier). Blizzard sorta recognized this, and tried to adjust accordingly (two concussion mine charges), but the nonetheless the kits were built were specific intentions.

tldr of the post that I saw was that, at the point of release, dps were never really meant to shutdown or destroy tanks like they do now, they were very specific and had straightfoward niche to promote swapping. We all know how that went (tank/support power level insanely high, lack of switching, very little counterplay to other roles throughout)

and the post speaks volumes about older metas

quad tank and dive will never happen in the games current climate, because both support and tank now have the self sustain and anti dive/tank resources to stop it. The reason why dive was meta was because of the tanks, not the dps. Although tracer and genji were strong (tracer by design is very special), alone they had counters in the dps roster, but because some tanks had the mobility to get to places and how low damage was you couldn’t really contest the tanks so your job was to target the healers. Dva being dva and winston being highly mobile was the reason why characters like mccree and junk, who are now strong against tanks, used to be trash throw picks in dive, the design they had wasn’t targeted to counter tanks or team comps, the devs were designing for controlled interactions and swapping as a single player on a team

we look at hero releases and most of them aimed to solve a problem that a role needed. Whether they failed or the execution was questionable is a different story, I would like to think about how the game would have looked if support:dps:tank power level was 1:1:1 and if we still had the offense defence class and very specific niches instead of dps now being general tank busting monsters

[lorenzo-11776]

I am not sure how would you even out the power levels. At that point tanks would not be tanks. Everything would need to be pretty much the same like COD

[jotaro-11439]

tanks in a shooter usually have to be large dps with ranged drawbacks, thrown out the window with sigma and orisa

another point is that cc is really punishing to everyone, more passives like reins or anti cc effects to characters who already are not very mobile. CC was meant to be a soft counter to ultimate power level and mobility but it is most punishing to characters with no mobility like rein and hog

if you want tanks to not die in a breath you would need either both high tanking and high healing or low healing and low damage like old overwatch

2 sides of goats or double shield sustain comps

or you get very tank oriented lethal comps like dive

[lorenzo-11776]

I see your point but I am not sure if the players would be satisfied since many believe that dps is the weakest role and wish to have more impact than they do now.