if you really wanna save your game please read my post i made a couple months back i truly believe it will be better for the game especially as the roster of heores gets bigger with the release of OW2
I donāt like the idea of it, but if we ever did get 1/3/2 then barrier tanks should have their nerfs reverted.
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I would enjoy playing 1/3/2 but as someone who enjoys playing tank, I would miss the off-tank/main-tank dynamic. Would it be possible to have some kind of option to play in a 2/2/2 or 1/3/2 game when you queue? It might alleviate some of the dps issue. It would also probably make balancing tanks much harder though.
If it was possible it would be fun to have an option for 1 support games too! I miss games where I was a solo support.
Ive been playing since launch as a DPS player and I always liked that kind of comp, but there is indeed a lot of pressure on the Tank player and lack of room for counterplays, I used to fix that in my looking for group teams by setting a
2 / 1 / 2 + 1 which means:
2 DPS / 1 TANK / 2 SUPPORT / 1 FLEX
And was very clear with everyone from the start that the flex role was critical since he had the power of balancing out the role duties depending on the situation, I used to pick that role since Im fairly competent on all roles and consider myself pretty good on identifiying different opportunities for all the characters which was always very exciting, such a role when played responsibily was a really rewarding way to play.
Personally Ive always thought that a flexible role would be overwatch at its finest, but because its difficult to get it right , requires experience , a wide skill, good attitude and knowledge from the player I couldnt think of a decent way to even suggest how to implement this in competitive without introducing a lot of potential grief.
Good Flex players do exist in the game however, perhaps 1 out of 6 of the player base can actually pull it off. I think the game would improve if it recognized this role and stimulated/regulated it in some positive way, Food for thought.
Feel free to try it out internally and tell me how it goes!
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Thanks Jeff, I love your transparency and I appreciate your team. Its nice that you guys try things like this but in all reality I think 2-2-2 is amazing. In my opinion It doesnāt matter what game you play DPS, the slot has always been a ādime a dozenā kind of a thing, it comes with the territory. I feel the problem comes down to the characters themselves. Balancing sucks and you guys do a great job but the changes are so constant its hard to predict but I think the focus should be on the individual characters and what makes them so unique.
For tanks, shields should not be a thing. Its what created this b.s. about main tanks and off tanks. The fact that a character has a mobile wall will always be part of the āmetaā because it can block direct damage. I think Zarya is such an amazing concept because it has that tank āshieldā but there are so many viable and limited applications to it. When the idea of tank comes around I think the devās need to think about how can this character protect the other players on the team with not just a shield. Like a paladin tank! I think we need to move out of the realm of team shielding.
For DPS well theyāre DPS. I hate that some are not as āviableā as others and I think a lot of that is because you have to play around a shield or you are up against a shield. On a side note, related to this topic, is any character that can one-shot someone. That character is almost always viable (meta) which shouldnāt be a thing. Itās the same principle of having a shield tank.
For support I love all of them but again weāre back to the issue of viability. A character who can make the team invulnerable even for 5 seconds will always be meta compared to other characters.
I play all 3 different classes and I know the sting of not picking a meta character. Just a thought, either way thank you guys for all the work you do!
Isnāt their game engine all in house? If so that would mean they optimized around their game in particularā¦ so yeah, would have a huge cost because itās likely a huge refactor.
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I really like the concept of 3-2-1 and I am very happy that you explained in such detail. At first, I was a bit skeptical about the idea, but the more I read into it, the more it really made sense. Right now, there is a huge problem with the DPS queue times and I feel like this is the right path to go. The only problem is that you will have to explain to an entire community in detail why this is a good idea. Iām scared people who are less open to new ideas and that are used to 2-2-2 will not like this change at all and will unfortunately give a lot of negative backlash. Although I do agree that 3-2-1 could definitely be a viable option of the future.
I believe that there are many problems that could be caused my 3-2-1 such as toxicity towards the tank player as it is now very easy to blame our 1 tank. If your match isnāt going as you want it to go, we tend to look for someone to blame. New metas will be formed and the 1 tank is the sole decider of what the team has to pick. The team will have to play around the 1 tank (unless they donāt care about the meta) which can lead to toxicity and create pressure on the sole tank. Although, most players donāt have the meta in mind, so these problems might only occur in higher SR games.
In conclusion, I believe this is the right way to go, but Iām not sure if the rest of the community will agree with this change or not. It might unfortunately cause extra pressure on the sole tank or even create toxicity between the players.
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I feel like you would need to make all of the damage mitigation in the game much higher to combat losing a tank & gaining a damage hero for the game play to have good pace.
I like this even in 2-2-2 right now with how Roadhog is at the moment. Having a Roadhog on the team makes the game play too fast.
WOW. Canāt wait to play Eichenwalde A point without a Shield and die in 5 seconds by a Widow bullet coming from 8383838338383 KM
THANKS JEFF KAPLAN!!! You are the best!!! Be a main healer is easier thanks tou you!!!
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Experimenting with 1/3/2 feels more like role queue shouldnāt have been implemented more than looking at changing the required composition.
As a tank player, I would probably quit the game if we went to 1/3/2. Between being a CCād pinball when Brig was OP and now sitting behind double shields, playing a tank has been more stressful, less rewarding, and having a smaller game impact. Making me solo tank would make it even more stressful and even more dependent on other people winning the game while I just try to open opportunities for someone else to do something.
If you make the off tanks into dps, I can see how maybe it works, but all 3 will lose their identities and youāre either going to have to balance them so that theyāre borderline necessary or useless.
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I think tank diversity would die with this. Like Jeff said, there will be 1 meta tank and thats it. If you dont play that meta tank, your team will throw a fit. Off meta comps are more viable if they are supported with a 2 tank synergy. Also alot of tank heroes would have to be reworked, which probably would end up being a balance nightmare.
Iād rather would try to shake up the 6 person team dogma and try 7v7 instead with 3-2-2 comps.
9 Likes
Iām sorry Jeff, but thatās a LOT of pressure on the 1 tank player. Whole point of an off-tank/2-2-2 was to make sure the responsibility of playing for the team was shared with the WHOLE team.
MAKE 1 BARRIER TANK PER TEAM IN 2-2-2
No more double barrier. 1 Rein/Winston/Orisa/Sigma per team. Other tank slot free for D.va, Roadhog, Wrecking Ball, Zarya. May need to adjust shield changes.
Take it one step further, both teams select from the same hero pool at the start of the map, no duplicates, instant 12 different heroes in every game at every level. Instant diversity instead of stale broken meta for months and months.
Please, this game is too good to be so bad.
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As a tank main, Iād rather not have 1/3/2 as I donāt want to solo tank. I did enough of that before Role Queue because of 4+ DPS comps. I donāt want to do that again.
If Overwatch ever went 1/3/2 then itād be with one tank main less.
Except the definition of what a tank needs to do in the game differs greatly depending on if itās a main tank or an off tank.
So you will end up worrying if you get an off tank as your only tank then youāre pretty much certain to lose. Thereās a reason main tanks are called āmainā tanks.
It may be more exciting for DPS, but itād be a heck of a lot more frustrating for the solo tank player.
The two games are going to share Competitive mode so there wonāt be any differences between Overwatch and Overwatch 2 except for OW2ās PvE content.
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Good god Jeff, this entire post made me feel things about Overwatch I havenāt felt since launch. I wanna point out that some of the best metas that have been widely received were 3-2-1:
Soldier tracer genji lucio zen winston
Pharah sombra tracer mercy ana WBall
Letās not forget how Shanghai broke the goats meta in stage 4 with pharah sombra doomfist wrecking ball.
I think you can continue to learn a LOT looking at wrecking ball and winston and what made them capable of performing well as solo tanks. Using that kind of inspiration to reengineer the off tanks would be extremely helpful. I really, REALLY hope that you keep entertaining this idea. I understand some tank players being fearful now but you and the rest of the devs have what it takes to give them something to change their minds. I donāt believe your points against it are invalid, but hereās what worries me:
Off tank players in OWL.
Could be very interesting to see super trade maps with choi for instance. This could play out FANTASTIC. My eyes went wide when you mentioned a focus on getting back that skirmishy, fps feel that by popular opinion I believe the player base wants.
I hope my opinion is well received and I hope you continue to post more and kore on the forums! Please take more risks with your ideas! We understand the emphasis that Blizz puts on polish and fully hashed out projects, but I really, really feel like you will be better off and even closer to your community if you let us take part in these AWESOME experiments! These kinds of tests keep the game alive and interesting. I think a big encouragement is to do something to get people on the PTR for REAL rewards. Transfer gold and lootboxes earned to main accounts generate bonus xp etc. we need to give players a reason to come and test your ideas. More prizes for quality feedback submissions so that you get even better ideas of what the players feel about the game.
I love you Jeff, canāt wait for your next post!
2 Likes
Please 2 tanks and 1 support instead.
Itās easier to solo heal than to solo tank.
Buff support healing and HP to make up for solo healer 
(Maybe for heroes like Baptiste and Moira maybe give 250 HP but like Mercy, etc give 300) and healing buffs for em all.
3 DPS is a problem for solo tank, donāt do it, ever.
Please test it out, I LOVE SOLO HEAL AND MISS IT.
Hey Jeff, do you think you could float the idea of testing this format? I and some others in the community like the idea of 1/2/2/1, 1 Tank/2 DPS/2 Support/1 Flex (Tank/DPS)
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Pleaseee put your experiment on the PTR. As a tank player I am extremely in favor of a massive rework to kill the offtank role by making certain heroes more ātankyā and others more DPS. Iād love to play a tank I want without needing the proper second tank.
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Please, please, please donāt do this. The off-tank role is vital to making Overwatch Overwatch. To me, Overwatch is a game that captures a weird complexity at its highest level that no other game or sport or anything has, and this complexity takes perfect shape in the off-tank position. I am someone who is extremely dedicated to the game as an off-tank player, and reading this rattles me. For the sake of both off-tank players like me and the art of the game as a whole, please keep it 2-2-2. Thereās got to be a better way to improve the game.
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Maybe we could have a test server that has options for 1/2/2/1, 2/3/1 and 1/3/2 when you queue? Iām sure there would be issues will all of thoseā¦ but itād sure be fun to test that.
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3 dps is a problem for some tanks like Rein and Orisa, but I could be really good for tanks like Winston and Wrecking ball. It would be cool to see a version of overwatch where the default tank for most ranks isnt determined by the characters ability to hold up a shield.
Personally Iām really excited to see the overwatch team experimenting with bold ideas like this. I hope the community gets a chance to try it out.
2 Likes