Nope. The OP is saying one-tricks are a detriment to their team because that hero may not be good or viable. My argument is that this would be an non-issue if the game was balanced well enough for the majority of heroes to be equally viable with one another.
I never argued the contrary? I’m saying that playing a hero of your chose would not lead to:
Because winning and adapting would not require you to swap of your hero if that hero was equally viable to another hero. Sure, counter-picks exist and I’m not arguing to get rid of them but all heroes should be able to adapt to circumstances and still do well.
In some match-ups against Pharah, I would still play Sym (for example) because I know I’m better at her than a regular Hitscan and can pressure her with turrets.
And I already acknowledged this. Perfection is a far-fetched dream but this should still be the developer’s goal regardless. That way, they can strive to make the majority of heroes in the game equally viable and thus maximise player satisfaction with the majority of the player-base. This idea that certain heroes can’t be used in certain match-ups is honestly lame and a problematic balance guideline because it essentially condemns heroes to the dustbin if they’re not optimal enough in most match-ups. Take Bastion and pre-2nd rework Sym.
So it isn’t 100% a player issue then lol given your own words.
Players can’t be blamed for poor balancing. They bought the game and spent time mastering a hero they wanted to play. Punishing them would be f-ed beyond belief.
And this would be a problem if “selfish behaviour” was actually a punishable offence. On the contrary, selfishness is what motivates a lot of players to play effectively to win their games. A handful of players simply see one-tricking as an effective way for them to win.
Im not arguing that they should do this but recent reworks seem to be striving towards making heroes more versatile and therefore viable in more match-ups. Sym is a good example of this.
Counter-picks and heroes that can adapt to different scenarios can co-exist.
Totally. Different heroes are more suited for different team comps. I’m simply saying that heroes that get countered should still have a chance at winning if that hero is played effectively and efficiently by the player. Calling it an issue of being “countered” and leaving heroes completely useless in certain match-ups just seems like a toxic way to create and advertise heroes. A game that promotes itself as a hero-based shooter with a diverse range of options to play should not limit itself like this in my opinion.
Not in the comment I quoted mate. If you did it before, ok then
No.
One thing is creating the problem and a different one is not trying to solve it.
The issue is that you believe it should be solved via balance, which makes no sense since balance is NOT a factor on the equation nor a game closer to CSGO would have any impact on OTP.
So yeah :
1 - It is 100% a player issue THEN Devs not punishing OTPs (and punishing flexing, due to losing ultimate) is bad. Dont correlate things mate, keep it clean.
2 - Again, no one is blaming players for poor balance, specially not me so this is not a point.
No not really. Again you are confusing 2 fundamentally different concepts:
A - The willing to be a team player and “sacrifice” yourself for the team (ideal on team based games)
B - Something going against the TOS, which no one is talking about now.
If you didnt understand what I meant when I said “punishing OTPs” then ask, instead of jumping to conclussions and arguing against something Ive never said or implied.
Some good questions asked here. Let me answer: Yes I’d switch if 1) We can make it work 2) I actually can pull it off with confidence. So it depends obviously. But I get your message: We have to adapt. Having an OTP (specialist) on your team often means a higher chance to win, because a OTP has a sh!t ton of hours put into that hero. That’s much more reliable than most people on their hero picks.
If you were in GM, you might have a case. But then if you can get to GM on a OTP, you deserve to be there, so even then, you would have nothing to complain about. You aren’t in your rank because of throwers, smurfs, OTPs etc. You are there because you deserve to be there. Don’t like your rank, get better at the game.
Qwaser, you are literally the reason why OW1 died in the first place. Your mindset is terrible and has led to the toxicity that now exists in the game today, and you are stuck in t his hard meta bs.
OTP is part of this game, there are alot of characters to choose from. Sounds like you need to go play quake or counterstrike.
One tricking isn’t gameplay sabotage. Gameplay sabotage is throwing the game intentionally. Big difference, and the fact people still can’t differentiate the two is baffling.
Will say though, that one tricking is annoying. In a team game, functioning on a rock-paper-scissors mechanic, one tricking a hero does nothing for yourself or your team. Sure it may be fun, but its still fundamentally a bad mindset.
What if someone picks your character? Then what? If they also one trick that character or don’t even respond, what do you do, ESPECIALLY in competitive modes?
What if your team needs a hitscan, but you can only play Mei or Genji? One tricking Genji won’t help you very much when Moira, Zarya, and Symm are on the enemy team hard focusing you.
This game puts emphasis on game sense and flexibility. And cutting out half of that cuz you one trick is just…not good.
Funny, I still see people playing all three of these games (and more!), having fun, and winning.
Winners understand the game they play, down to the tiny complex nuances that are a part of it, like people skills to work with their own teammates. They formulate strategies to smartly play the best they can with, using what they have, in the games where competing players are not given identical starting conditions (e.g., poker). And even though luck plays its part in such games, making the outcome a gamble, skill and knowing how to min/max what you have to work with is what wins these games, and mastering such skill—including people skill----on top of knowing and playing the basics—is what makes the game fun.
Every PVP game more complex than tic tac toe is a gamble. The limitations of your teammates in team-based games and the limitations of your enemies’ ability affect how each and every game is played, whether it is Overwatch or any other game out there. Everyone plays games for their own reasons, and the “purity of intended gameplay” for each isn’t always it. Meaning that having your teammates assigned randomly will always turn ANY team-based game into a gamble. You want to fix that problem? Then take charge of your team, ditch the matchmaker’s auto-assignment, and form your own team.
Make friends. Group up together. And 100% you will never have to deal with another one-trick or a stubborn player that won’t switch heroes again. (Or boot the morons that do and unfriend them; there is plenty of fish in the sea, and life is too short trying to convince stubborn idiots into becoming your ideal teammates).
Even if it is, hard counters haven’t magically disappeared.
You pick d.va and the enemy destroys you as zarya now when you have to be on front 24/7 and there is no shield to hide behind.
Then the developers have nothing to strive towards - no end goal. That literally makes balancing a pointless endeavour.
What you replied to and this:
Are a reply apart lmao. Even if you didn’t reply to it, surely you scrolled down and saw it. You can’t just pick-and-chose what to reply to and then get surprised when you find out that I said more than just what you quoted lmao.
Nothing about what I said is implying that I want OW heroes to replicate the CS:GO model. Pushing for more versatility and diversity in how a hero can be utilised in different match-ups isn’t the same as making every playable character the same copied and pasted hero with identical abilities.
We have different perspectives on what exactly the issue is. To you, it’s OTPs - that is anyone who plays and masters a single hero for a given role. On the contrary, I believe it’s the inability for certain heroes to be played in certain match-ups that makes OTPing a problem in a handful of scenarios. The aforementioned should be rectified.
If they make heroes more viable depending on how skilful they are played, OTPs would never be an issue. Instead, we’re in a situation where how skilfully you play a handful of heroes is irrelevant if the enemy simply pick a “counter” hero.
It’s not even that I’m against counters but the idea that certain heroes are rendered completely useless in some scenarios is just so bad for player satisfaction and just exists to remind us how only a handful of heroes will ever be playable.
If most heroes had the ability to adapt and persevere in most team-comp scenarios, we wouldn’t be having this conversation about how bad OTPing is. Soooo, it ain’t the players fault.
Correlate what lol? You keep saying 100% but then contradict yourself in the very same sentence by saying the developers have a part to play for the “problem”.
The game developers have constantly talked about how one-tricking is not something they’re actively going to condemn and they’ve even said that only mastering a handful of heroes is fine. Of course they also said they wouldn’t encourage it but that’s mainly because of their belief that OW is “more fun” when players play more heroes (entirely subjective).
Your assessment that they “enabled” OTPs is right but whether that itself is a problem is a whole different story. Regardless, it’s clear that the developers should be the only ones held responsible if they’re the ones constantly telling players that it’s fine. Again, on what grounds are you blaming players for? They’re still playing to win and the developers have given them the green light for their actions.
My initial post was about how the player should not be held responsible for poor game balancing (which in turn makes one-tricking more difficult if you play certain heroes).
You replied to that saying:
You blame players for “selfish behaviour”
You claim that developers should be punishing OTPs when they’re the ones who’ve said it’s a completely permissible strategy.
Most of your argument has been vilifying one-trick players for not adhering to a “team-based” game when at the end of the day, all comp players are motivated by their own individual SR and rank gains.
Bruh who told you that sacrificing yourself was any requirement for a team-based game lol. Individuals play this game. This idea that they should sacrifice their enjoyment for the collective is nonsensical and not something that the developers themselves have stated or even suggested. I mean, from the get-go OW was a FPS game and you’d think the first-person experience would be the most important.
Even then, you automatically assume that OTPs don’t care about the team or that they’re working against the team by playing a hero of their choice. A lot of times people literally just play certain heroes because that’s what they’re best at and unfortunately only they know that - not their teammates. Being in a team is also about trust and relying on your teammates to contribute meaningfully.
It ain’t. It quite literally isn’t against ToS. Unless ofc the developer in the link I posted is talking about balance and game philosophy without knowing the OW ToS lol.
Honestly half of what you said doesn’t even make sense. I said that players shouldn’t be held personally responsible for one-tricking since it should theoretically be a fine strategy if all the heroes were balanced enough to be played in most match-ups without being a throw-pick. You replied back talking about how I conflated balance with OTPs when my initial argument was that OTPs wouldn’t be bad if heroes were viable in most situations… From there you went on a tangent about how it’s a punishable offence (an egregious lie) and an example of how OTPs are selfish people who undermine the team-building aspect of OW.
You never explain why exactly OTPs themselves are bad besides loaded accusations.
You never explain where in the ToS is one-tricking condemned.
You claim developers are encouraging bad behaviour when they have stated already that there’s no offence committed when one-tricking (they just won’t encourage it).
And now you insist that balance won’t solve the issue and as for why:
A whole heap of nothing.
You wasted your time replying to what was a defence of one-tricks. You misconstrued what I argued, thinking that I was saying one-tricks are motivated by balance. Then you started lecturing me about selfish and awful OTPs are. If you still can’t understand what I was trying to say from this reply, I have nothing more to say and given how pretentious you sound, imma mute this thread and go-on. That way we don’t need to waste our time any further.
Dude you are nitpicking sentences and answering them like the next sentences are not the context and pretending they dont exist. You are refuting nothing and just correlating/jumping to conclusions for zero reason at all. Good lord, seems no one can be concise these days.
Again, for the hundred gazillion time: “Balance” is not a factor on the “OTP issue”.
Also that conclussion out of nowhere means nothing, correlates to nothing, refutes nothing and is also false by the way. Delivering content IS the main goal of Devs. The balancing team often is composed of different people, just so you know.
1 - You really need to understand the words you are dropping mate, because “making all heroes equally viable” is LITERALLY making them all generalists and pushing them towards the CSGO model
2 - Its amazing how you didnt understand ANYTHING of what you just wrote, not even my position. Again, instead of asking, you assume and respond to something I’ve never said or implied so that whole paragraph is for nothing.
And by the way, OTP again (for the trillion time) has nothing to do with balance or viability of heroes in match-ups or scenarios.
No.
Again, NO.
I already responded to this. Do you have memory issues?
And you responded
You LITERALLY ARE
Because if balance wasnt a factor, then the OTP issue would not exist, your OWN words mean that.
Do you understand the meaning of “correlate”? Because the sentence is clear. You are taking a sentence that mentions 2 SEPARATE things with the formula A and then B happened and believing they are the same. Im not saying they have a part to play for the problem ORIGIN. Good lord
Again with the flawed claims. OTP is not an issue of balance, nor balance is a fac … you know what? Its pointless. I dont think you dont understand a basic concept about the OTP issue nor you want to.
When you are hardcore keen on nitpicking sentence and misrepresent a stance just because I refuted your baseline yes, its “nonsense” lol.
Big words for someone that doesnt even understand a stance in 2 posts with 2 sentences. You got refuted and still havent understood any position or any issue, then proceed to argue from bad faith basing all your responses in HARDCORE strawmans of my posts and claim that someone is “pretentious”.
Yea mate, Take the L and walk out, and then act like you are not if that works for you.
PS: TLDR For you, because you still seem to not get it: “Balance” is not a factor on the “OTP issue”.
Any argument coming from that base, its wrong so your whole reply falls apart.
Do you really want the OTP switching to a hero they play 2 ranks worse? Or would you rather have them play the hero they got to that rank with? OTPs are more skilled then you are. Because if things get tough then they can’t just switch to an easier hero. They learn to make it work with their hero.
Sure that’s team effort and 2 hitscan might help that. But what if that junkrat is really good at killing pharah’s team meanwhile the other DPS plays hitscan and D.VA matrixes her shots? Win-Win.
Nope. The team will call out moiras fade and genji kills her.
Nope, the team can always force out a Sombra and her hack can be canceled.
No, a good ball will avoid freeze.
Beating Bastion is a team effort. If you Rein has a Winston or DVA and a flanker on his side nothing happens.
So basically nothing besides that stunlocking that is in the game. Truth is: The more hours a OTP has in his hero the less counter there is to him, because he has learned to deal with it. Flex players can’t say that. They often play heroes who are good on paper but can’t pull it off correctly → throwing games.
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.
