you forgot to include that cassidy is a hitscan, which makes it far easier to land shots consistently at any range other than point blank, and if an enemy is at point blank, he has a one shot combo that is far easier to land than a zen righclick. while both have awkward hitboxes, zen’s is far larger
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SO MUCH THIS- lemme give you a bump!!!
This is a bad take. Supports aren’t asking to heal bot, they are asking to play the game. On ana i can heal the team and attack the enemy team, that feels good, but it only works on long range maps where she can position herself.
People are playing Moria and Lucio because they get to heal the team (because you’d cry if you didn’t get healed) while still being able to deal with enemy heroes.
Heroes like mercy and Zen suck. Zen is too easy to kill and has too much power in discord, so you either get rolled by him or roll him, no middle ground. Mercy relies on other heroes and is literally BUILT to heal bot or damage boost. And dps players cry when they have to play hit scan instead of Genji to deal with the pharmecy.
People aren’t asking to heal bot, they are asking for tools to play the game on heroes that currently don’t get to.
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except you can’t really separate it because the reason he’s bad in OW2 is literally because he only has “skill shots” to kill and self peel with and flanking him to death is a whole lot easier than him killing them to selfpeel. that’s precisely the issue.
if you make a hero to do X, like say kill, they should have tools that make it reasonable them to get kills. i.e. you do have to make them somewhat “easy” to do what they’re intended to do, not everything really easy and have some difficulty for skill ceiling, but generally you do have to make the kit actually reasonably possible for players to actually achieve that.
e.g. dps snipers, sure they have a skill shot primary, but they also have other tools like mobility to not only get height + good angles, but to also help them escape or duel. or they have cc or other consistent damage or mines to help them scout, self peel or burst to enable them to duel and kill.
giving zen falloff which limits his range whilst also making bad in <=midrange simply is just trashing the hero further making him a lot more divable, as opposed to actually giving him more individual impact or more playmaking.
“utility” as playmaking doesn’t mean anything and would be highly situational. what wouldn’t highly situational in plays is whether you saved a life or killed one as that’s what most things boil down to and often what really matters.
meanwhile with fitzyhere: Sombra Abusing the Ping System - YouTube (timestamped)
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they couldnt find a health pack before they sure as hell wont find one now -_-. theyll just post 2x as much
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Owned.
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time to make a custom game called “find the health pack or you die within x seconds!”
also- I just read the developer blog on the beta, I am happy with how they will approach this issue. Check it out when you can- the blog itself nullifies the OP’s post.
Out of spite tho- ima be a dps support hero and not heal anyone when I eventually get to do the beta.
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Using your thread- Lemme post what the devs say so we can further do the “I told you so,” to OP:
“However, we’ve also seen queue times increasing for tank and damage players, as those roles have been relatively more popular vs. the support role during this test. We understand the need to make playing support more attractive to players, and we’ll discuss that more below. In the interim, we’re also working to enable quick play classic with open queue so that players seeking shorter queue times will have an easy option for the remainder of the first Beta test.”
"Game Balance and Support Heroes
This Beta and future tests will be critically important for identifying balance issues and adjusting. So far, most heroes are falling into a healthy range overall for play rate and win rate across different skill levels, but we’ve seen a few outliers that we’ll address in a balance patch planned for later this week. We’ll continue actively monitoring gameplay balance, and we expect to make further hero balance adjustments during this Beta.
More broadly, during our Alpha test, we observed support heroes feeling too vulnerable to diving and flanking attacks with fewer shields and no second tank focusing on protecting them. We made a significant adjustment to their role passive heading into Beta, allowing support heroes to recover more health faster and improve their survivability. This change improved their overall power and durability, and overall supports are performing well in the Beta, but we know that balance is only one aspect of what makes a hero fun to play. We have heard clearly that support players feel both tanks and damage players have more new content to enjoy and explore in this Beta. Longer term, we believe the most effective way to tackle this issue is to add exciting new support heroes to the game, and that is part of our plans. In the near term, our hero design team is also experimenting with significant, but shorter lead time, ideas including new and refreshed abilities for some existing support heroes. These types of ideas could be deployed later this first Beta test but more likely would be in our next test."
Also, I’m not going to say I think Zen should or should not be buffed, or whatever…
But concerning flankers, we really need to realize if you’re aim/tracking is decent/good, you’re going to melt tracer, if you’re paying attention. Genji might be a bit harder given he can engage from a longer range, but for the most part Zen packs a whallop, and like other supports on certain maps/comps he’s going to probably be fine.
Honestly, myself, I think a lot of this whole “support” debate should remain highly subjective until we get more time playing as teams who are actually focused on teamplay and winning. We all know right now most people are fighting DM/spread out style with no real cohesion outside of our muscle memory for team play from OW1. Let’s face that, and face that when comp comes around metas/comps/higher teamplay is going to show where each pick will actually be sitting in a clearer picture. Right now we’re knee jerking and we should at least wait to see that before forming opinions we might consider “concrete”.
We know that the change of things has effected some supports in some ways and others in other ways, but it might not be the pick… it might literally just be us. The number one thing a lot of the complaints is telling me is a lack of teamplay/sense.
IMO, too early to tell or go on a crusade
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I read it. I’m glad they aknowledged some of the responses, but let’s see what they actually do, which of course they’re going to wait until after OWL.
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The fact blizzard did NOTHING to supports goes to show how blind and lost they were in thinking they would actually feel good in 5v5. It is an unbelievable blow when an entire role gets completely ignored and overlooked while everyone else got a bunch of cool new and interesting things. We have EVERY right to be upset and to demand blizzard make changes because there is a REASON support has instant q times and its not just because every other role had new things to test out. The fact that they thought supports were “really strong” in 5v5 is astounding, and they should learn from this honestly.
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I’m pretty sure that it’s reasonable to expect supports will have changes. Honestly I think DEMANDING things and saying they’re doing NOTHING is a little FAR FETCHED.
I get it, people have the right to be upset, I’d prefer to say they have the right to be concerned, but my god if I read one more Karen post
They literally did not do anything to supports other than grant them the same passive mercy has + take away brig’s stun. they had 3 years to implement changes and i wouldn’t even be generous enough to say they did the bare minimum. they left supports in the dust and thats how it felt because they thought they were “really strong” and they couldnt have been more wrong about that. i never said theyre doing nothing, i said they did nothing to supports and yes, you heard that right, we ask blizzard to do something about it because they poorly executed this.
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this is literally a troll opinion that was shared among plat players on these forums and has no particular merit or validity. You can easily verify that at any range except mid-/long-range, hitscan and projectile are about equal. There is in fact some prediction you need to do as hitscan also in OW because there is no movement acceleration and you can’t be that fast, even the fastest flick takes a few milliseconds, enough for the enemy to, in principle, strafe the opposing way.
if anything, Cassidy’s hitbox is larger. But I’m not arguing 10% differences, keep the change for OW2 to buy yourself an extra item so that you are not “free kill” anymore haha
Support bias is really strong on these forums I must say.
The betas aren’t done it’s not like this is the finished product 
Be honest with yourself, we know they’re going to be changing more things
But more importantly like I said
My favorite part about this is when people sit here and are like “OW was so unique and original and fun because it was a team based game, etc…” Okay, how come 99% of you don’t play as a team anyways then? I’d never believe even half the people who post here just play with the team 100% of the time like they’re intended to. I already know most people don’t even use the hero switching concept either so? Like what do we want here?? Just wait for the new support heroes and changes, that’s all you’ll really need.
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Bahahaha, true. And now there’s one less person to cover for them <.<
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youre missing the point. Everyone knows this isnt a finished product, but to release the FIRST glance at ow2, and leave supports as an “after thought” was insane. When you read the blog post they launched about the matter, you can clearly see with the PR wording that theyre trying to compensate without addressing that they made a poor choice. To launch the beta without touching supports and thinking support players would just manage is a slap in the face as a support player.
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Then the entire DPS role needs a overhaul if you think that. There are only 2 support that don’t have aim requirements on dealing damage, alone with doing everything else support is supposed to do.
Zen, Ana, and Baptiste are harder than majority of the DPS roster to play already lol.
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Listen, I’m gonna be honest, like I said you have a right to be concerned but you sound like you’re taking it personally and blowing it up. I get it, it was a poor choice, but it’s not indefinitely staying that way. Relax.