Then… remove it??? Instead of doing what you have done for years, nerfing Sym around it and ignoring the elephant in the room, just remove it?
Literally remove it from being a function of the basic ability. Leave TP as a personal tool, and move team TP as a mechanic to an ultimate, where it being gated by ult charge means that Sym isnt shackled by its existence as a basic ability accessible from the first second of a match.
Buff Sym afterwards, reverting all the nerfs you have done to rein in this gimmick locked to organized full party stacks.
Even if support Sym becomes a thing, she will be a subpar support because team TP allowing heroes that should not bypass terrain to bypass terrain is fundamentally broken.
Well this alone gives me plenty of reason never to bother reading any of your posts again.
I actually suffered through your original post and I can’t say it was worth the effort. Not that that was much of a surprise. However I was willing to discuss your thoughts civilly.
But you tore any credibility you had to shreds by being so needlessly hostile.
Yes, Teleporter is extremely strong when used correctly. However, excluding ‘team rotation to point oh boy’ (the effectiveness of which has been reduced as a result of mode changes), I’ve never used TP or seen TP used in a way that inherently felt ‘unfair’ or ‘broken.’ Set-up and orientation time always makes just about every play counterable.
I think that a pretty massive number of potential plays and optimal usage of Symmetra TP is locked behind a set of coordination and mindgames that just don’t exist in the game right now. However, every idea I’ve ever thought of has always been very cool and interesting in theory.
I can’t think of a world where team TP gets removed:
It’s still part of Symmetra’s core identity.
Anything you would give her in lieu of that could easily push her over the edge.
With proper setup Symmetra can already delete a target on the other side of a TP faster than (or as fast as) every other hero in the game. What are you going to give her with removing team TP? Faster setup is already coming. More/faster damage? Won’t that become oppressive very quickly? It’d be like giving Reaper a very consistent two or even one shot, but Symmetra has even more tools on top of that (Note that Reaper’s teleport is now slower than Symmetra’s TP by a half a second).
My opinion, essentially, is that Team TP both cannot and is not holding her back. If you can read that from this.
I’d much prefer that they simply add in a 5 second cooldown on TP at the start of the match to instantly remove any “tp out of spawn” cheese - especially the kind where the Sym swaps to Tracer after.
I’m not really sure what this means beyond a subjective marker that some people have set in their minds. Cassidy used to have a different name and people have stopped complaining about even that. It’s only a core part of her identity until it’s not.
That said, Mercy mains still haven’t gotten over mass rez, but they’re the same people who are upset about not having a not particularly attractive skin, so I’m not sure how much weight we should really give them.
…Nah, you’re right. People don’t ever forget. Leave her in the dumpster with her kit.
I want a more indepedent Sym that is not just there to taxi people. Something got to give and I say its TP. I want more power put into her gun and not TP
The problem here is Sym gets balanced around her highest potential → team TP. Personal TP is trash. It’s a worse shadow step. But if the whole team uses TP it becomes really strong so the rest of her kit has to be bad for compensation.
That being said if you play in ranked where nobody uses TP - we all know the pain - you are basically underperforming and you can’t do anything about it.
So there are 2 important aspects about TP:
It’s too strong when used correctly
It makes her too team reliant
Symmetra gets balanced around the whole team using TP and doing fancy stuff like TP shatter or TP bomb but in reality this stuff never happens unless you play in OWL.
Also why tf is such a strong support ability on a DPS?
Yes, but I also think TP gets a bit less problematic on a support because there is longer this weird gap between selfish use ↔ team use. It becomes a pure support ability at this point. And a support giving utility to the team is fine.
It’s just a name in his lore. It doesn’t affect his gameplay or what he’s supposed to do and that’s more important because it’s a game first.
Some might say giving a jetpack to the rocketlauncher hero is “fundamentally broken”. Or a giant shield that three people can hide behind and shoot from. Or a healer that can fly at mach 3 to any ally every two seconds.
What happened to “if everyone is broken in their own way, no-one is?” That’s the magic of this game, imo.
TP as ult has merit for the reasons you listed, but also, in my opinion, it was kind of an underwhelming ult. It was planning for failure, which I don’t like, and it was more or less like Mass Rez-lite (yet more cumbersome to use).
Gonna ignore everyone on all sides getting worked up and toxic and I will focus on the discussion which brought up a few interesting nuggets, instead.
I honestly NEVER thought of TP as being a reason that they have had trouble balancing Sym till now and you make a brilliant point and raise a brilliant possibility. TP came from the 5 man rez era, and could afford some reworking if it frees her up to be what she should be.
I honestly think she should be a support, but making TP an ult means you can actually play with it a bit. What if they used the “multi ult” choice she used to have, but to give you two possible TPs that would appear and do shield overhealth in an AOE on both ends of the TP. Now you can place your TP, just as you used to be able to do, only now it’s much harder to destroy (but times out). Remember, this is an ult, so why not let it just be an object that while “theoretically” being distructable, realistically is a zoning ult in a way with the overheal it will give the team as they come out the tele.
ok, that would be the first option of ult the game would offer sym. the second option, is a tp in front of spawn to your location, no matter where you are. and then rework the rest of her abilities accordingly to make her a healer, with overheal as her tool. kind of like brig overheals, but it is shielding overheal canon wise, even if the game doesn’t actually represent it as such in the healthbars anymore (which is an interesting change i enjoy).
The difference here is that it makes the heroes themselves strong, and all of them are balanced around said mechanics. But above all those have agency,
Sym’s current TP… doesnt really. There is no way to balance a mechanic that was previous an ultimate and now a basic ability without dumpstering the hero. Their idea of it being balanced is keeping its potential that is locked to a coordinated 6 stack
If team TP was balanceable, Symmetra would not be one of the most nerfed heroes in the game.
If team TP strats were usable outside a coordinated full party stack, we could not be having this conversation.
Sadly, Symmetra has been nerfed time and again for it, and there is no way to force your team to follow you and take it, so we are having this conversation.
I mean they have, textually, nerfed Symmetra around it. Its the only thing they refuse to nerf in any meaningful way. Meanwhile, they have nerfed everything else about her, including personal TP uses, which are very separate from team TP usage. They have nerfed, not counting all that was removed with insufficient or near zero compensation on the 3.0 nerfwork:
beam damage
orb damage
personal TP
ult wall
sentries
Thats basically her entire kit. All nerfed, except team TP, the centerpiece of the 3.0 rework and where most of her potential comes from.
Its the only thing that OWL considers her worth picking for, she gets switched at the first chance after its use regardless of outcome.
I feel like this is a bandaid, and it doesnt solve the issue. It will just be a reason to excuse her being usable on china gardens KotH where the TP spot is on the window in the point.
I feel like they will do it anyways since the issue has never been doing it from spawn. You just go back and pick Tracer lmao. 1-2s of walking back isnt going to break this.
After that… its a slippery slope. How far from TP do you even allow Sym to use it for fears of taxibotting? 10m? 20? until it can only be used on point? Nerf Sym’s own uses for fear of team TP is exactly what Blizzard does. And what about every other mode?
Putting more and more stupid conditions for TP is nothing but the laziest and most stupid ‘‘fix’’ for it. Its already a dead skill in combat that only works to run away on a kit full of delays and charge ups.
There is zero reason to keep team TP as a mechanic on a basic ability. Basic ability TP should be personal, and the idea and mechanic behind team TP should be an ultimate.