Big problems that won't go away

Shield Tanks

For all the differences between more traditional First Person Shooter games and Overwatch there is at least one similarity - without shields shooters kill things pretty quickly. There is no other damage counter that has emerged to compete and replace a shield. Thus the paramountcy of Reinhardt quickly became a fact of Overwatch life and has shown itself lasting. With the eventual and arguably belated release of Orisa and Sigma Reinhardt finally got some like to like competition. However, it turned out that if you round out shield tanks they could just be stacked. As is customary for Overwatch posters as soon as a big problem emerges that isn’t easy to fix many take the imbecile’s way out and imagine a savior hero yet to come who will deliver them from their predicament. The anti-dive Christ bore the name of Brigitte, who many subsequently swore has a ‘Hail 666 Satan’ tramp stamp on her lower back. As the game’s de facto prime creator, one Jeffrey Kaplan, has stated, “be careful what you ask for”. Likewise a hero powerful enough to break up double barrier would annihilate single barrier, and then you will behold DPS heroes in their original sin forms. Other feeble and inadequate ideas have popped up trying to discriminate between double and single barrier but I haven’t seen one defying common sense. As people are averse to anything that can even be falsely imagined as grandiose this is no surprise.

So the developers nerfed the living hell out of Orisa and Sigma’s barriers and on the eve of Overwatch 2 the game is back to square one, except now you can play Reinhardt with either Orisa or Sigma to spay and neuter the types of damage dealers that started FPS games. I have some fun pulling Bastion out at this point but the Reinhardt dilemma isn’t getting solved any time soon. You either keep his shield relatively strong and have him played all the time to the exclusion of every other tank unless there’s a temporary dive comp or you nerf his shield too “and here we go”.

DPS Queue Times

Recently I’ve started playing some tank and support. Jeffrey Kaplan’s modern day oracles - those employed by Blizzard to attach dubious assumptions and stereotypes to numbers and model the future - foretold of this. 2-2-2 Role Queue would induce changes in the behavior of players, just like what Heroes of the Storm needed when it was going downhill was someone versed in the technical financial literature to introduce loot boxes full of novel sprays, portraits, and God knows what other abominations meant to have people keep spending money until they get the actually valuable stuff or are able to conjure it out of scrap, but I digress. Many other players won’t bother and I had already stopped playing the game, granted prior to 2-2-2, until I heard that 360 hz monitors should be coming out later this year. I’ll stop again once I’m done spending another $300 on mice like a degenerate monkey. The Razer Viper Ultimate is a pleasant surprise.

The point is I’m getting some insight into the minds of tank and support players. First I noticed that recent queue time predictions are systematically false. DPS queue times are often > 4 minutes longer than displayed while support queue times are often > 4 minutes shorter than displayed. So even support players don’t have to wait all that long to get into a game. Ana is good, Moira is surprisingly fun at least for the time being and of course easy to play while quite effective, Mercy is playable, Brigitte is still quite useful against dive, Baptiste is just coming down from an overpowered episode, if you know how to wall ride Lucio remains a decent option, and Zenyatta seems to be bringing up the rear. When Zenyatta is bringing up the rear without being terrible you’re in a good spot no matter how much you may complain about the bigger DPS pool padded by a number of heroes that are garbage. With the return of the king, Reinhardt, who is a comfort pick for many and being able to plug more or less any other tank in the other slot tank players aren’t exactly suffering acutely at the moment either. Their queues are the same and even shorter than before role queue. Despite the constant restriction and division of choice tank players are subject to some of them just like to cry when you try suggesting alternatives formally integrating restriction and division in order to rebalance some tanks and increase actual selection diversity.

Based on my observations of floundering games not even a clear and precipitous decline will change many of these people’s minds (in fact, many of them will just silently quit), especially when their positions are reinforced by historic grievances against DPS players. These people are enjoying 2-2-2’s lack of pressure that for them has come at a low and gladly paid cost of somewhat longer queue times. Some of them even enjoy seeing DPS players complain. In their minds the game is centered on them - if their experience is more agreeable and their queue times aren’t a problem then they couldn’t care less what the broader risk is. They exhibit the same sort of selfishness they accuse DPS players of.

The risk, however, is there. In the context of how short and straightforward Overwatch matches are waiting on a regular basis in 7-10 minute-long queues, for some players even longer, tests your patience for and enjoyment of the game. DPS being the most popular role accounting for perhaps a majority of players makes this a risky proposition. In essence, 2-2-2 role queue was the nuclear option.

Overwatch 2

Overwatch 2 will no doubt give a reprieve from the effect of these problems. Excitement will be in the air and a lot more people will be playing for some time. But key problems won’t go anywhere. Overwatch has already shown lower than desired limits on its effective appeal.

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This fruity writing style isn’t very popular.

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tl;dr

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Upvoted for this alone, the rest is good, but this was amazing.

Unlikely, the tank / supports are even more likely to play PvE. So it will make DPS queues worse rather than better.

The broader risk is some dps leave, and the dps queue times improve.

That isn’t much of a risk to the tanks / supports. Or the dps who remain for that matter.

The issue is here that 2-2-2 was a one way door, the people who used to fill are unlikely to return to filling all the time, I won’t for one.

The game quality will go down hill fast, and not just the dps will leave, and that is a real problem in a competitive game with a shortage of 2 of it’s 3 roles.

They can’t make the roles worth playing, and that is the big problem.

Why play support if you are not able to have enough influence to change the games outcome?

Why play tank if you don’t have the shields to tank damage for longer than a second?

Supports need strong powers to support their team, it doesn’t have to be healing, but it does have to be something.

Tanks need to be able to create space and have fun doing so, but, that is becoming less of a thing as well.

So? What is the risk?

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I doubt the PvE is going to amount to that much.

As for the rest there are things that can be done in switching to less restrictive limits.

See here we both agree :slight_smile:

I think 3-2-1 where the one is whatever is needed but echoed on both teams would work.

Ok, on flight chat later.

DMG numbers too. MAny heroes with too much DMg on their name. You get one-three shotted in most of OW matches

OW2 NEEDS a map editor. We can upload them to the workshop, and the most popular map of the day is put in the arcade. It’d be fun! Breathe some fresh life into the game. TF2 hasn’t been updated in 3 years and the map editor’s kept that game alive- PVE will get boring real fast, and then there is nothing else left for casual players.

The mirroring is only initial so that players get a guarantee to play their desired role without being at a compositional disadvantage. Then if someone decides to change either of the compositions the mirroring is out the door. There is an alternative version where mirroring is forced, which would retain role specific SR. I don’t favor it at the moment, but it would be interesting to see a 1-2-3 comp with say Zenyatta, Ana, and Baptiste on the offensive.

It’s not that simple,
Overwatch uses map specific assets that are strung together to make the entire map,
The reason the maps parts are segmented is not because it’s modular (because it’s not), rather it’s to facilitate occlusion culling, I.E if you can’t see it, it’s not rendered, to increase performance

There aren’t any assets that are modular and can be strung together to create a unique map
If Blizzard were to release a map editor
It would be a tool to allow people to import custom maps made in blender, 3ds Max, or Maya
probably including a material editor to import and fine tune textures

Put some undestructible cover in some of the maps, there are way too little and some of them have HUGE empty spaces. This will get rid of double shield and burst damage problem.

As a Tank player i found myself playing DPS these days. You know why?
There are so few Tanks that i got bored of them after 5 seasons of playing always the same heroes.
Paradoxically the lack of Tanks make even more difficult to balance the few that there are already. The game needs more of them.

Won’t happen. After the DOTA debacle, Bobby the Tick is keeping a firm, greasy, fist on his sources of income.

Who came up with the notion there’s a recent burst damage problem?

Have you ever played Tank? Got onshotted from the backline to another by a Hanzo?

Have you seen that video where an orisa and her 900hp shield get melted in less than 2 seconds?

People complained so much about barriers that they got destroyed but guess what…there is still a barrier meta with Reinhardt…because of burst damage, because of how fast things dies in this game without them

I’m ok with nerfing barriers even more IF maps gets changes that don’t make the use of barriers mandatory…putting some more cover in some of the maps would improve this that’s what i’m saying

Hanzo was buffed after sucking for a long time. That’s what Hanzo and Widowmaker do, they one-shot lower HP heroes. Who melted an Orisa and her 900-point shield in less than two seconds? All three barriers were reduced because of 2-2-2 and stacking. Things die quickly in this game without a barrier due to damage in general.

Yeah hanzo oneshot squishies…i would be ok if he only oneshot the 200 hp ones but oneshot the 250hp ones too

And besides this…if he oneshots squishies that autmatically means that bi-shot the tanks too.

But that’s outisde my point. I didn’t want to specifically talk about Hanzo.

That clip was before the nerfs and it got melted in a nanosecond if i find it ill post it here for you if you want