💔 Bastion ISN’T being forgotten, he’s being ignored

[anon76877250]

transport isnt really a problem with maps

[AlphaVI-21848]

then as a top 500 bastion player, my jugement is more meaning full than is “2nd account”…

[ShadowDarter-6407]

A Bastion flying prototype from a few years ago.

[BliztDreams-2743]

Where can I buy one ?

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

God I hate payload/hybrid maps.

It’s so old, getting Eichenwalde and not being able to push the payload to the end, because the bridge is a bottleneck that stalls the game.

On Blizzney land, the last time I got a team who could only take the point was never.

Route 66 is almost a full hold on point A, then the enemy just ult-dumps in OT and push it all the way to the end, via their ults, and only their ults.

Kings row is actually balanced now that Dva isn’t a tumor in every game.

Rialto is god-awful.

Dorado and Numbani gets overplayed.

Junkertown is junk.

Then the last time I played Gibraltar was before Bastion had IC.

Hollywood I don’t mind, but that means it’s uneventful.

On the other hand, I think I found a good spot on Paris for Bastion It feels like a reskinned Anubis, which I love that map, since it’s my best map. However HCL and Volskya can die in a fire.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

How to balance Bastion 101.

[ChibiFox-11511]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Volskya

One of my all time best Bastion maps.

No one expects it.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Then the last time I played Gibraltar was before Bastion had IC.

Legit god has heard me.

I just got a Gibraltar game, held point B until a win, and our Sym got a card saying MVP: 87% of the match on fire.

THEN it booted everyone to the menu and the message at the top said “finding a more balanced game.”

Like god, can you fix my life like how you just rigged my Gibraltar game? like pls

@ChibiFox-11511

One of my all time best Bastion maps.

No one expects it.

Yeah, I just dislike point B because it’s so dang hard to retake, which is unlike Anubis. I wish they’d rework the right side of the point so you can actually pinch the attackers, like I can with Anubis.

Meanwhile Paris seems to be looking up ^.^

Hopefully it’s not a disappointment like Busan was, where it’s literally a sniper’s paradise, and soooooo anti-Pharah.

[ShadowDarter-6407]

I am going to admit something im running out of ideas, to make Bastion viable. i honestly don’t want overpowered buffs but i want things that might make just surviving a solo fight with slightly chance of being viable. yeah im moving towards Ashe as a hero only because of the thousand plus hours i spent as Sniper with TF2.

I still want to reach for the sky for Bastion but ive been a main since the Beta and yeah… i have seen more nerfs than buffs.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

The problem isnt what new buffs we can give him, but rather what buffs he needs.

That’s why I went from advocating to the removal of IC, to Tank on E, to spread/accuracy, and now I’m onto QoL issues.

[ChibiFox-11511]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

Yeah, I just dislike point B because it’s so dang hard to retake, which is unlike Anubis. I wish they’d rework the right side of the point so you can actually pinch the attackers, like I can with Anubis.

Meanwhile Paris seems to be looking up ^.^

Hopefully it’s not a disappointment like Busan was, where it’s literally a sniper’s paradise, and soooooo anti-Pharah.

Speaking of, where the hell did Paris come from?! I slept in ONCE and this stuff happens?

-.-

Also yea, i took point B of Volskya alone as Bastion once. after the nerfs too.

[ShadowDarter-6407]

but when you really start forgetting the light the dark looks even worse. i need to change out games for a while I think Anthem will be a good change of pace.

@chibiFox But Paris could be a Bastions playground on the final point. though i need to explore the map more.

[ChibiFox-11511]

@ShadowDarter-6407

@chibiFox But Paris could be a Bastions playground on the final point. though i need to explore the map more.

I haven’t actually seen it yet. It good?

[ShadowDarter-6407]

@ChibiFox-11511

good?

Good, its one of the best maps in the line up, i have only played Ashe on it for the most part though tomorrow im going to do at least 10 passes as Bastion and i will give my opinion in post here. though my instincts tell me that it can be a solo Bastion’s play ground.

[ChibiFox-11511]

Played a round of mystery heroes.

What heroes did i get all round long?
In this exact order:

Junkrat.
Tracer.
Junkrat.
Tracer.
Genji.

Wot?

[AlphaVI-21848]

@ChibiFox-11511

mystery heroes.

there is no mystery heroes. in mystery heroes.

only META

[TREB-21513]

@BastionBabǝ-1672

These are a list of small problems that stack up to hurt Bastion:

• No IC when transforming
• “Nerfed” IC in Tank Mode (20% IC equates to 60 HP, whereas he used to get 150 armor)
• His self repair has both a CD and a cast time.
• Armor got a sweeping nerf, and Bastion was caught in the crossfire
• Several abilites have been buffed to counter Bastion, or people have learned that they are far more effective (like a Rein walking up to Bastion, and Charging him to win)

So as much as Chibi wants HS back, that will be moot if Bastion is currently fodder each time he transforms, especially in and out of his ult.

Wouldn’t all of these be solved by getting rid of IC just for sentry mode and compensated with Bastion having a total health of 400HP? IDK what proportion of his health should be armoured, but a higher base health means:

• he’d be scrapped from the same amount of damage regardless of whether hit while fully config’d into sentry or not
• 400HP * 20% = 80HP, so 480HP much the same as when Bastion had 300HP+150 = 450HP in tank mode.
• Self repair can be more safely buffed as it’s not a case of “Arrow dealing 120 Damage undone by only healing 93 hit points” so healing from allies is relatively less effective.
• IC means far more attacks were in the sweet spot where the armour nerf made the most difference.
• Rein charge no longer leaves Bastion at only 3HP but at 103HP, with a fighting chance to fight his way out or be rescued by allies. Similar with Hog Hook.

I know, Bastion with 400HP, that’s pretty much the same as Orisa. Well Bastion is as big as Orisa (larger frontally) yet without fortify or barrier-shield.

300HP with 20% damage reduction means the devs think Bastion should be able to absorb about 375 damage before reductions from armour, before the armour nerfs that really was Bastion with effectively 400HP. But there’s problems with a standard ongoing damage reduction in it makes healing disproportionately effective.

I think a lot of people are happy with the idea of Bastion being balanced by using that 0.5sec sentry->recon time to escape overwhelming attacks, rather than just sit there soaking damage and trying to counter heal. Bastion too often isn’t even allowed to escape, when so many other heroes have super viable escape options.

None of this would help pirate ship or bunker comps, those are already dead and this wouldn’t bring them back.

I wouldn’t mind if this meant Bastion was now ranked as a tank, it makes sense and would be the answer to people complaining about how there isn’t as high a proportion of tanks in the hero roster.

PS: one problem with HS is Bastion would melt BOB ridiculously quickly, and we have way too much Robot on Robot violence. All omnics from all factories need to join in brotherhood and DESTROY ALL HUMANS!

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

@TREB-21513

Wouldn’t all of these be solved by getting rid of IC just for sentry mode and compensated with Bastion having a total health of 400HP? IDK what proportion of his health should be armoured, but a higher base health means:

I wouldn’t do it for 400 HP. 450 is the lowest I’d go.

@TREB-21513

he’d be scrapped from the same amount of damage regardless of whether hit while fully config’d into sentry or not

Which makes recon more robust, sure.

@TREB-21513

400HP * 20% = 80HP, so 480HP much the same as when Bastion had 300HP+150 = 450HP in tank mode.

I’m getting flashbacks of 35% IC.

The one benefit AND drawback to IC is that it technically buffs his self repair.

Which is why if he is going to have the HP of a tank, he really doesn’t need IC at all, since he could potentially just reconfigure and duck behind cover to heal.

@TREB-21513

Self repair can be more safely buffed as it’s not a case of “Arrow dealing 120 Damage undone by only healing 93 hit points” so healing from allies is relatively less effective.

Well if he’s becoming a Tank, i’d request that that his self repair gets more charges to accommodate his newer, larger HP.

@TREB-21513

IC means far more attacks were in the sweet spot where the armour nerf made the most difference.

Yes, but IC is also a huge factor elsewhere in his kit, like a Mercy pocketing him. IC isn’t a threshold like armor is, it’s a constant. IC will constantly reduce damage, no matter how much HP.

Meanwhile Armor is only good up until it’s gone, and while you could keep healing up the damage taken so the ally still has armor, it is not a constant.

@TREB-21513

Rein charge no longer leaves Bastion at only 3HP but at 103HP, with a fighting chance to fight his way out or be rescued by allies. Similar with Hog Hook.

Yes/no. I’ve always been a strong advocate for nerfing charge down to 200 damage, but the reason behind it is because Reaper, Mei, Brig, all are countered by Rein, and that’s why he’s so meta. His counters hurt other tanks far more than it hurts him, and he has the tools to kill and/or distance himself from them.

@TREB-21513

I know, Bastion with 400HP, that’s pretty much the same as Orisa. Well Bastion is as big as Orisa (larger frontally) yet without fortify or barrier-shield.

But she needs some buffs in her own right.

@TREB-21513

But there’s problems with a standard ongoing damage reduction in it makes healing disproportionately effective.

Which is why if Bastion is becoming a Tank, he NEEDS to not reduce incoming damage, otherwise strats like Pirate Ship will run rampant again because he’s teh same old 20% IC Bastion, but with an HP buffer to absorb more damage.

@TREB-21513

None of this would help pirate ship or bunker comps, those are already dead and this wouldn’t bring them back.

Actually, it would. As someone who still plays Bastion on junkertown, it hasn’t died, it’s just that the randies stopped using it after it died down in the pro scene.

[TREB-21513]

400HP would mean Hanzos can’t complain, it’s still same number of arrows to kill. But importantly you could exit sentry and Hanzo would need to land every single storm arrow to destroy you. 450HP would mean you wouldn’t even have to leave sentry, you’d survive 6 storm arrows.

400HP would mean you can survive a stun+fan combo from McCree, and there’s already a lot of opposition to how easy that is. McCree could still quickly kill bastion by landing one shot then rolling to reload for a stun+fan combo. But that’s harder. That’s more advanced tactic isn’t viable with 450HP, with any proportion of that HP being armoured.

If it 100 of that 400HP was armoured-health then high tickrate heroes (Winston, Moira, Symm, etc) would have the exact same time-to-kill on ironclad sentry bastion.

@BastionBabǝ-1672

[tank having 400HP + 20% DR]

I’m getting flashbacks of 35% IC.

The one benefit AND drawback to IC is that it technically buffs his self repair.

Which is why if he is going to have the HP of a tank, he really doesn’t need IC at all, since he could potentially just reconfigure and duck behind cover to heal.

When you put it that way I see the problem, plus it just doesn’t have the right optics as Ironclad just has such a bad name and if it exists anywhere it just invites disparaging slogans.

Perhaps the ideal buff to self-repair is not to increase the rate but increase the responsiveness and sustain. This would buff tank mode, if healing began instantly this is effectively far more healing between each shot fired. The cooldown makes it too hard to heal between each shot also if you do heal between each shot, you’d run out of the self-repair resource before you ran out of time for your ult.

Such a buff also wouldn’t seem as bad to the anti-bastion haters. They see “hmm healing at 75hp/sec, that’s really high” and they don’t know and don’t care about the significance of the other limitations, removing those limitations to unlock the latent potential of 75hp/sec healing is going to get a lot less blowback. You try to buff 75hp/sec they’ll say “even 75 was too high!”.

But she (orisa) needs some buffs in her own right.

Up to 500HP? Higher proportion of her health is armour?

One little problem is Orisa and Bastion are seen as ‘partners in crime’, the rare occasion a Hanzo or something sees a Bastion shooting from the protection of an Orisa shield it’s such a personally and painful attack on their (wrong) sense of entitlement that they can’t simply spam storm-arrows into the Bastion to easily destroy him that they remember it. They remember it disproportionately and act like Bastion has a pick rate more like 5% rather than 0.5%.

So giving Orisa the buffs she is also due is going to have pushback.

Though Orisa having more health wouldn’t make her shields stay up any better.

[JaredMnstr-2554]

Bastion

• New passive “social anxiety” - Bastion now deals less damage and has a high chance of a malfunction when near Orisa.

Developer Comments: We belive Bastion got a bit to close to Orisa in terms of relationship, thats why we will try to seperate them from each other while keeping their power on manageable level in lower ranks.

D.Va

• Now does a double backflip while ejecting from mech.

Developer Comments: Ejecting D.Va will now be more enjoyable to watch by overwatch league audience.