atm bap is one of my top supports in GM and its actually kind of silly how well he is able to duel most dps. i think there needs to be more downsides to this hero.
i think he’s fun to play but playing against him is just pain. #NERFBAP2023
11 Likes
im diamond and my friends masters.
He’s a bap main and can 100 to 0 me on every hero without me getting a kill in 1v1 hero duel.
1 Like
hey man that’s just a skill issue. just bait out his shift (get him low) and then just bait out his immortality field (get him low again) oh and also bait out the support passive (shoot him) oh and what’s that? he’s already killed you? skill issue dude
22 Likes
He definitely needs nerfs but his damage isn’t it.
5 Likes
He’s a combat medic, not a pacifist.
8 Likes
The last time I remember Baptiste being really, really damn good his damage was boosted from 24 → 25. He’s been with that since the start of OW2 and it really gives him a ton of break points given HP values are all 200-250 in this game for squishy heroes.
2 Likes
I think the support heroes need damage in overwatch 2. Blizzard needs to go in the direction of decent mobility/damage but less sustain, not the opposite.
2 Likes
“Support should require aim and do more than just stand there and pocket people.”
Gets shot by Bap
shocked Pikachu face
14 Likes
Yea, but I think Baptiste can survive going from 25 → 24dmg again. Supports win through attrition. DPS win through burst.
2 Likes
I dont really see the point.
It fixes literally nothing wrong with the hero and just makes him feel worse to play. It would just be a nerf for the sake of a nerf.
The fact that y’all want to balance the game around dueling potential is a red flag in and of itself.
5 Likes
I’d have more changes like remove the slow down on his crouch, but the only one I really want to see is the 25 → 24. Make supports less lethal overall and give part of that power back to DPS. Supports really do an awful lot.
Illari I was immediately happy with the moment they moved the DPS rifle from a huge girth down to a smaller girth making shots on hitscan more consistent with other DPS and supports.
Zenyatta should be like peak DPS output of any support given his design, but he’s overshadowed by heroes like Baptiste or even Ana since Ana has literally 2 kills set-ups 12/15sec long and Nano if you include it.
The problem is when you do that supports become less fun. It is not fun to healbot. Dps are still far more lethal in almost any case than a support. Baptiste definitely needs sustain nerfs(specifically they need to get rid of the burst heal on regen burst) but i personally wouldnt touch his damage.
4 Likes
DPS, Tank, and Support I feel offer players different situations. DPS is your raw kill potential. They should be the best at it. Tanks are in between your sustain and DPS output. Supports should be peak sustain.
They have the only team heals. They have the only support passive. It shouldn’t be healbot only, but neither should a Moira, Illari, OR Baptiste be putting up numbers like 8000 DPS and 10000 heals. They should be more in line with an Ana or Brig or Kiriko where you see like consistently 3000 dmg and like 9000 heals.
1 Like
Problem is, people often conflate this concept with “I’m the DPS there should be no reason a support should kill me or prevent me from killing them.” That’s why we had a witchhunt that subsequently led to near arbitrary nerfs across the board to nearly all supports. And people still weren’t satisfied.
6 Likes
I’m fine with a damage nerf to Bap as long as it’s reducing damage per bullet and not changing the fall-off or slowing down his rate of fire. 20m fall-off in the betas felt naff on OW2 maps. 2019/2020 Bap felt crappy because the slower fire rate made his gun feel asthmatic.
Bap’s gone up to 127.5 DPS in an attempt to push up lower rank win rates, but I don’t think it’s the right approach. It makes him a headache for the very top ranks of play while still being unwieldy for most players.
This is where the whole idea comes from where DPS win the burst kills, but supports win via sustain.
Ana with the support passive is no longer as vulnerable to flankers as she once was. A flanker running off to get a 75 hp health back is now detrimental for the flanker because Ana too is healing up during that time said flanker is running away trying to heal up.
No longer can you run off to heal up and expect to find an Ana with all the chip damage you implemented and bionade on cooldown.
Same thing with Brig. She’s phenomenal now since you have a 4sec whip shot to push someone away, shield to avoid chip damage, a 5sec shield dash and extra distance to put extra distance away from someone. All while healing up with inspire and support passive.
Brig’s passive playstyle is anti-aggressive and punishing to those long term as say you thwack them for 80dmg on whip shot, heal up, and wait for them to close distance again and charge forward when you have the advantage.
Brig emphasizes this killing someone through attrition style very well.
2 Likes
She’s actually more vulnerable to flankers now that there’s no longer an offtank. Problem is most people complaining about Ana are tank mains who want to face tank while their anti’d or dps trying to duel an Ana no where near objective and are getting wombo’d by sleep+anti+dart. If people were playing near the team that chip damage wouldn’t still be hanging around either.
Brig is probably the best example of attrition vs burst, but again balancing around dueling is the worst choice they could make for this game. Brig is actually also the best example of that since when she was so overtuned in the goats meta, they could’ve easily managed this by tweaking her healing and defensive potential on top of 2-2-2 requirements, but DPS didn’t like that a Brig could kill them so they nerfed her damage on top of everything else and she became pretty much a throw pick for months.
I wonder how many people actually play supports and want to heal/“support” primarily. I suspect it is in fact quite large number.
Imo supports really should not be about damage - ie there should be relatively clear separation in roles.
I’ve been somewhat baffled about how dps-oriented the recent supports have been.
Really feels like blizzard just wanted more dps players to play support. But then after Illari, no one was happy about it.
When you have supports who just do good damage and healing, then, why not create damage heroes who also would do decent healing?
imo the correct nerf on bap is on his damage. I dont know why people would rather have supports where their actual “support kit” is nerfed instead.
If you nerf healing only, then the supports who deal good damage just get stronger.
Support heroes have always had a style where they balance DPS and HPS. The original four were Mercy, Lucio, Sym and Zen; Mercy was the only one that felt like a “pure” support. Characters like Mercy and Lifeweaver are the exception, not the rule.
3 Likes